(0:00)Cold Open: "Being a Christian Doesn't Mean You're Full of Christ"
Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you're a follower of Christ. Absolutely. Christian has become a catch all for people who claim to be Christians. You know, but not everybody, even Jesus himself says not everybody who says Lord, Lord is my follower. He said that on the last day he will say depart from me, ye that work iniquity. We did this in your name. We did that in your name. So it's a catch-all term for a group of people that if you dig into what it means to be a Christian, you find out a lot of them are not Christians. Unfiltered. My name is Tunde Makanjuola and I am joined by my co-host Lorraine and Nosa and I am also joined by the PF in PF Unfiltered. Unfiltered.
(0:42)Introductions & the Viral Video That Started It All
Lorraine, Lorraine gave me a look just like she thought I was going to come for her. She gave me one of those that's typically Yeah. No, no, you're good. You're good. I just wanted to see if you wanted to introduce yourself today. No, my name is, I am... Mhm. PF. PF. You... You do this and I will be Unfiltered. He does. He does it all the time. Oh, my name is PF. I'm the PF of... Yeah. What am I supposed to do? I know. So different. My... Come on now, guys. So different. Nah, man. At this age, you get to do what you like. Okay. So, this is the PF Unfiltered version of you. We'll see. An introduction. We'll see. Is there a version of you that is filtered? Okay. How will that sound like? Hi, my name is like they threaten somebody. Hi, my name is brought out his corporate voice and I am the Nah, man. Blink twice if you need help. Hi, my name is Tamara. Tamar, how's it going? Oh, it's not okay. Hot. No, maybe it's because of the topic we're about to discuss. That doesn't make me happy. It's a hot topic though. It is. And and I I I wonder as a pastor, do you have any conflict of interest in Okay, I'll just say the topic, right?
(2:04)"God's Chosen Ones Don't Go to Church" Breaking Down the Claim
So God's chosen ones don't go to church. Say that again. God's chosen ones. What are God's chosen ones? Don't. You're the pastor. You tell us. No, I don't understand. Say God's chosen ones. Yeah. Those chosen are God's chosen. Are we talking about Israelites? The Jewish people educate us PF. I'm I'm sorry I can't I don't understand the framework. What are What are we talking about? Cuz last time I checked, it's it's the PF It stands for Pastor, right? Okay. So the chosen ones uh could be either Israel. Okay. The Jewish ethnic group, right? Or the church. The church is the chosen one. They are the chosen ones. Okay. So is there another chosen one? Cuz I know there's a denomination. There's a church somewhere in Africa that calls themselves—they say they're chosen. Do you want to give background about there's a video, right, or that you watched? Yeah. So there was a video, and I'm not sure how we can link it, but we can find a way to do that, where um someone was talking about how God's chosen ones don't go to church. But my perspective was like they were saying Christians don't go to church. No, I felt like they were saying just because you're a Christian does not mean you're a follower of Christ. That's what I got from it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um "Christian" has become a catch-all for people who um who claim to be Christians, you know,
(3:30)What Is the Church? The Body of Christ Explained
but not everybody—even Jesus himself said, not everybody who says, "Lord, Lord," you know, is my follower, right? Um he said that on the last day he will say, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity. We did this in your name. We did that in your name." So it's it's a catch all term for a group of people that if you dig into what it means to be a Christian, you find out a lot of them are not Christians, right? Um so yeah, if you're talking about Christians being the chosen ones, then saying the chosen ones don't go to church is for me a contradiction in terms. That makes sense because the very idea of church is this. So So let's talk about what church is, right? Mhm. The church is not a building. It's people, right? And when people gather, the Bible says where two or three of you gather in his name, he is there in your midst. There's a corporate experience, a corporate experience of God that is separate from the individual experience of God. Right? He says, I will never leave you nor forsake you individual. But when two or three of you gather in his name, he is there with you. Right? So you've got the individual experience which he promises us he will never leave us. or you've also got the corporate experience, right? When we gather, he is there with us and he responds to us in a way that is sometimes different from the way he responds to us when we are by ourselves, right? Um and and that really is a summary of the definition of the church, right? The corporate um gathering, right? In fact, the Bible goes as far as saying that the church is the body of Christ, right? So Christ is like the head and the church is the body and the church is the body that is manifest on earth right. Um so I I struggle when people talk about the church like it is separate from Christ. You know I I accept Christ but I reject the church. I find that problematic. Right. Um I think what a lot of people are trying to say is that they are they they accept Christ. They believe that Christ has died for them but they reject some aspects of organized um religion organized religion but the very idea of Christianity is is opposite to religion we all say Christianity is not a religion it's a relationship and there are certain expressions of every relationship right
(6:00)I Accept You, But I Won't Tolerate Your BS
um sex is an expression of a relationship right um having dinner together is an expression of a relationship having a conversation expression of a relationship right the corporate experience is an expression of our relationship with God right so you can't say oh I'm going to be married I'm going to reject this experience or this expression sorry this expression of that relationship right so when people say the chosen ones don't go to church I'm I'm I'm really sincerely struggling because it's literally a contradiction in in terms the chosen ones they are the church and They gather as the church if that makes any sense. Makes a lot of sense. I I don't know. I think the church hurt. It's kind of I don't want to say it's played out but you hear quite often like like people experience pain in church. And it's that pain really that they are responding to not necessarily like the church. Well, well, I I Yeah, cuz when you say that the church is the people, well, that people hurt that person. And they're just like going to that church, they have that constant memory of like, I'm going to get hurt again. I'm going to get hurt again. And they, you know, they said they love Jesus, but can you love Jesus and also reject those people that were mean? Jesus did not promise you a hurt-free life or a conflict-free life or a comfortable life, right? The rejection of the church because of pain in the church is in many terms a rejection of what Jesus Christ came to do. Right? He says in this world you will have troubles. Right? In this world, you will have trouble. In in life, you will have challenges. To reject the church, the body of Christ is like, think about it like this, right? I I'm walking down the street and I bump my head, right? I bump my head and somehow there is a feeling of pain in my arm. And because my head is the source of the pain, my arm rejects my head. Right? It doesn't work like that. This is a spiritual thing we're doing, right? People treat it like it's a club and you know if I don't like what the club is doing, if somebody talks to me some type of way in the club, I'm going to just walk away from the church. It's not a club. It is a body of Christ. It is an expression of the body of Christ. You can't walk away from it and still call yourself a part of the body of Christ. There are many things in this life where we experience pain, right? So you go to work, you experience pain, right? You quit the first job. Do you not go back to work? You find another job. Right. Right. Another place of work where you can um actively pursue your innate desire for some kind of actualization, right? You don't sit down at home and say, you know what, last job I went, they hurt my feelings. Last job I went, they were rude to me. Last job I went, you know, they treated me some type of way. You find another job. So I'm not one of those people that believe you you are born and you die in one um one aspect or one part of the body. If one part of the body is not working for you then find another part of the body. When you reject the body wholesale I I can't sympathize with that. So then what about okay so I have another question. So what about so with a job like there's like expectations of like okay you're just there to go do your work get your money if somebody is being mean or whatever you're going to tuck it through and we understand that there's also expectation of Christians to be loving to one another to be nice to one another to give people grace mercy and so let's say a new baby Christian gave their life to Christ and they're meeting these Christians that's supposed to show them love grace but it's the opposite of their experience is the opposite of the expression they're supposed to be receiving. And so they're like, "What did I do this here for? Like I'm not feeling the love and the grace that you guys that you're supposed to
(10:00)Church Hurt: When Correction Feels Like Judgment
give." So they run away. Those people didn't die for you. Jesus Christ died for you. So I I I I went through this journey. Okay. Right. So I know this journey. I met Christ. I didn't meet Christ in a church. I met Christ. Right. Um I can tell you the story if you want if you don't believe that. I I didn't get saved in a church. I I was in the middle of nowhere, right? And I had an experience and I met Christ. But I realized from reading the Bible by myself that I needed other people to grow in my faith, right? To um to get to know God more. Mhm. If I want to know, I will try and read about. But where there are gaps in what I read, I will ask people who know, right? If Truth means the world to me, right, then I will surround myself with people. If Truth is central to my life, I will surround my He's not. I will surround myself with people who will help me understand. Right? The Bible says God gave a gift to the church. Right? He didn't give the gift to the individual. He gave it to the church. Right? Pastors, apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of ministry. Your perfection is tied to the ministry of those five; it is tied to that five-fold ministry. Your ability to do what God has called you to do is tied to that five-fold ministry. That five-fold ministry functions in the church. It was given to the church. It wasn't given to you as an individual. You know what I'm saying? So if a baby Christian comes to a church and cannot find grace and cannot find um um um um the love the love right as he or she right desires the love and and many times it is not that you cannot find the love is that you cannot find love the way you want it. If you know enough if you know enough to say this love I'm getting is wrong then you know enough to go somewhere where you will get the real love. And a large percentage of the time people come to church and the folks in church are you got to change this you got to change that you got to change this and and and and yeah you got to change some of those things you can't come into church and you're wearing your mini skirt and you expect nobody's going to say something and when they say something Oh my God. Oh my God. Or you coming to church and you're smoking or just reeking of weed and you're like, "Oh, I got to do me." Somebody's going to say something. Even if you went to a high-end restaurant, somebody will be like, "Dude, man, you can't come here smelling like you're a skunk." I think the high-end restaurant doesn't necessarily say come as you are. I'm not trying to excuse. I'm just trying to show come as you are. Everybody who says come as you are always adds don't remain the way you are. So when you come as you are, Paul said something. He said, "If I did not know the law, I would not have known what sin was." True. What hurts some people, and I'm not trying, some people have had some terrible experiences, but what hurts some people is somebody's telling them, "Well, you know what? It is wrong to come to church smelling like skunk, right? It is wrong to come to church with all parts of your body hanging out." We don't like that. We are like, "Okay, well, you know, the church should be tolerant." The church is not supposed to be tolerant. The church is supposed to accept. They're two different things. I accept you, but I'm not going to tolerate your BS. And that hurts us. We live in a world that is constantly affirming everything we do. So when you go to church and nobody wants to affirm whatever it is, hear me? We get upset, right? And that's okay. And that's fine. But then I would expect that you go find another church there. All sorts of churches. There are churches where everybody's wearing stuff that's hanging out. It's okay. You fit right in there. See. Can you can you clarify though? You said something about acceptance and tolerance cuz I think it's a little bit nuanced because like obviously I've known you for a long time and I can see a situation in which if I were to show up reeking of weed or something I can I know there's acceptance. I know there is okay like this is not right don't do it again. But for a lot of people their experience is not this is not right don't do it again. This is straight up judgment whether it is verbal non-verbal. Those around them are like what kind of person are you because of the self-righteousness. So, so you know me, right? I'm not a self-righteous person. Well, I know. I know. But we conflate a judgment with
(14:30)Boundaries, Cow Skin at Customs & Why Every Community Has Rules
correction, right? Me pointing out what you're doing is wrong is not judgment. It is correction. Right? The word of God corrects us. I am a minister of the word. How would I speak to you without correcting you? How would I share the word of God with you without it correcting you? Inherent in the word is a corrective action. Right. Right. So, so somebody comes into church and is doing something. Right. Accepting them is not saying get out. Right. Accepting them is saying you're welcome to stay, but this needs to change. There's all of us. All of us. Even the the psychologists who are telling us to reject religion or reject church are constantly telling us about boundaries. Every society has boundaries, right? What we will accept and what we will not accept, right? In America, I saw something on Instagram, a customs officer at one of the airports had a bag full of cow skin, right? Cow skin is very is something that people from the west coast of Africa like—we call it ponmo. I didn't understand what cow skin that's what he was talking about 'cause he kept saying cow skin, cow skin, and he opened the bag and there was a ton of you know, cow skin. You know, and he was talking about how, oh, a lot of people eat this, it's really nice, then he ends with, "Unfortunately, it's not allowed in the United States," and they put it in the trash. Yeah, cow skin is not allowed, but chicken feet are. Well, but you get my point. No, but so if that is acceptable, if we all understand that, yeah, if we all understand that every community has the right to say, "This is acceptable and that is not acceptable," why do we vilify the church for doing what we are constantly doing? I think it's the—see how you said the way that even your example, it was calm and it wasn't there wasn't malice in how you Oh, come on. Come on. Malice, malice. No, but there's some people The reason why, the reason why you're saying there's no malice. The reason why you're saying there's no malice is what I'm saying is because—I'm not saying it to you as part—this is something you're doing. We're having an intellectual conversation, right? This generation, the children of this age, once you say something to them that they feel criticized about, right? You guys know what I'm talking about. 80-90% of them take it as hating. Why you being a hater? Yes. Period. No, I get that. I So, so, so why can't—so, so, so and and and at the root of a lot of this and please don't get me wrong, guys, there's a lot of—there a lot of serious issues, right? Right. But some of the things that I hear, my eyes want to roll into the back of my head. Like, come on, man. This is just when I hear some of these things from some folks, then it undermines the credibility of those who have seriously genuine um um issues. Okay. I have a—I have a good example. My good example is that sometimes, so as you're on your journey with Christ, there will be times that you—there will be something that you used to do and then you just randomly feel this conviction of like I feel—I don't feel okay—what— I'm like let's say for example clothes,
(18:00)Social Media Christians & Putting Your Convictions on Others
you're like the stuff that you used to love to wear now you feel self-conscious about what you're wearing and you start slowly changing and that's I would like to say that's the Holy Spirit changing the likes that you like changing you into becoming more like Him and so when you start let's say for example going on social media sharing your walk with faith. People love to be in the comments and be like, "Oh, by the way, you shouldn't have your shoulders out. You need to do this. You need to do that." And I'm just like, I look at those comments like, "Bro, it probably took her a lot to just get to this point and y'all already telling her to do A, B, C, D, E, F, G." And then if God convicted you about your shoulders, then wear um sleeveless clothes. But I, I think it's just like people are putting their own convictions on other people when God hasn't done that. I don't agree with you. You don't agree? I don't agree with you. Okay. As somebody who has been vilified on social media, I know the pain of it, right? But if somebody comes on social media and is doing something that the Bible says the Bible says is problematic, right? Yeah. Everybody turning a blind eye to it on the premise that oh, let the Holy Spirit do the work, right? is extremely problematic. I preach grace. Some people say I preach hyper grace and I don't care. But I believe that if you do not preach the truth, people will never look for grace. And the truth is this. If you sin and you are living a life of sin, without Christ, you will go to hell. My job is not to make you comfortable with your life. My job is to make you so uncomfortable with your life that you look for a solution. And when you look for a solution, you find Christ. If somebody is wearing clothes that are inappropriate, my job is to point out to them what you are wearing is inappropriate. And then they will be like, "Man, I don't know what to do. I've tried. I've—hey, I—I love showing off my, you know, this is just the way it is." Right? And then that will lead them eventually to Christ. The Bible says, "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst." Right? That hunger and that thirst is stoked by many things. Yeah. And part of what stokes it is a confrontation with the truth. If nobody tells you the truth, then you're complacent. You're complacent. And and the Holy Spirit works many times through the mouth of multiple witnesses. If she goes on social media and she's, you know, cursing and, you know, or he is cursing and smoking and drinking and talking about Jesus and people jump on them in the comments, you know, it will make them feel bad and they'll be like, "You know what? The Bible actually says I shouldn't do that." And then they'll be like, "Man, I can't help it. I've been cursing all my life." Then guess what? Jesus comes in, right? Jesus did not come, he says, I have not come to cancel the law. Right? All I have, all Jesus does, he shows us another way, gives us another way to achieve what God always intended. And I fear that what people want these days is not another way to achieve what God intended. It's to cast aside what God intended altogether. No, I I it makes sense, so much sense to me. And I want to, like, take a more, like, a nuanced approach because like I said before, I known you, and I know, like, whenever you're talking about the truth and correction, you're you're talking about correction to what's wrong, but you're, you are still leading in with, there's a level of grace. I think there's another perspective. I don't know how many people this applies to where they hide behind correction, but what they're really doing is judgment. I mean, that's what that's for them. They they are they they are trying to find somebody else that they are spiritually superior to. Let me ask you one question. One question. What they are judging you about, is it something you're doing? Yeah. I I think so. So, so what in quotes you're being judged about is something you're doing, right? Question number two. Is it contrary to scripture?
(22:00)The Woman Caught in Adultery: How Jesus Handled Both Sides
No, it's not. What you're doing is not contrary to scripture. That's right. It's contrary to scripture. So, so, so, so AK, you're doing it. B, it's actually contrary to scripture. Right. Why don't you address that as opposed to the idea that, oh, they are being self-righteous? I I I agree. Yeah. I know. I know what you're saying. So, there are three issues. Two, right? On on two of them. Yeah. I checked the criteria of contrary to scripture and it being true 'cause it's wrong. Yes. Now a lot of the times we want to focus on you know how and some guys this happens a guy is cheating on his wife and the wife the way he she finds out is that she picks up his phone and she sees pictures and text messages and he goes why you why you pick up my phone you're invading my privacy bro is that the point no but that again that context makes sense it's the same thing sometimes if you are humble if you are humble Right? If you come with a humble heart and you really want to be better and please you you know I'm not I'm not here to to hold water for the people who right want to cast stones you are trying to be responsible with that but yeah but you yourself you that you are coming right with a humility with a heart to to meet this Christ when somebody talks to you some type of way right ask yourself is there any truth in what they're saying first of all if there's no truth in what they're saying there's no truth in it. Either A you're not doing it, B is not in scripture. Then we can focus on this person is self-righteous, this person is judgmental, but when you are doing it and scripture says don't do it, then you want to talk about their judgmentalism and not what you're doing. That I that for me to me, right, is problematic. Can I use a different maybe is the way let me use a different angle, right? So use 2 Timothy reason why I think this is very important. there a lot of people that might be in that middle and this I think it's very important because help me like let's let's do a segment sponsored by by revenue where like give me called PF's perspective and I'm going to bring scripture into it right so and help me see the logic or the reason behind what I'm trying to say I think there's still there's still a lot of responsibility on how something is delivered and I say it this way absolutely when the lady that was caught in adultery what she did was wrong. Mhm. The Pharisees had a a very skeptical, you know, they the evil intent. They trying to trap Christ and they asked him, you know, according to the law, she should be stoned and he didn't answer. Mhm. And then eventually um he said he who is without sin cast the first stone. And mainly they dropped their stones. He looked back at her, said, "Where are your accusers?" Then he said, "Go and sin no more." To your point there was correction. Yeah. But the way the correction went, it wasn't a as Christians these days, we are afraid to say the truth. But some which is true. But some people their interest is not correction or grace. It is to bring you down because they feel better about that and they hide behind the mask of Christianity. That one is what I want to talk about. I love I love that you're saying that. And the question I'll ask you is how do you know what is in their heart? How do you know what is in their heart? Yeah. 'Cause you know what 'Cause you know what Jesus did? Jesus didn't say you you you dare not throw any stone. He says he that is without sin. He left them to examine their own hearts. Right. He didn't attack them. He didn't attack anybody. Right. Right. He just said, "Let him that is without sin cast the first stone." And everybody did introspection. Right. Right. And dropped the stones. And then he said to the woman, "Where are your accusers? They've all left." Then he goes, "I too do not condemn you. Go and sin no more." If the woman, uh, who was caught in adultery, right, had turned and said, "How dare you? You're a sinner." You, that is what we're doing though. Yeah. In that context, yes, people are the people who—the people— people there are Christians. I would, I would never, I would never never, right? And I say this with confidence, with pride and boldness. I would never pick up a stone. And I mean, yeah. Right. I would never pick up a stone. This is not like a PF. This is I would not pick up a stone. But if other people had picked up stones around me and that woman had attacked them for being self-righteous. Yeah. I would have said to her, "You're deflecting." Right. Let's assume attack. I—I'm trying to look at both sides. Though she has a responsibility to do the right. But then I think there is also the other side. Mhm. Otherwise Christ would like— Christ would have made us go and introspect even those that are saying the right thing. Christ—Christ—but you see, Christ did not vilify them for, I agree. Exactly, Christ, because what they did was not wrong. What they did was not wrong, right? What they did was the correct thing that is what the law said Christ did not vilify them he just elevated the conversation right he said let him that is without sin cast the first stone he didn't say oh they were wrong yes they were accusing her and what what what did the law say when the law says if somebody's caught in adultery the person should be stoned. That is who who's going to do the stoning? Well, you you're right. I mean, the the the letter of the law is she was wrong. Mhm. I I'm trying I don't know how to maybe it's the way I'm addressing it. I I get what you're saying. Make it as balanced as possible. I get what you're saying, right? And the truth is this. I I understand what you're saying today, right? And and my concern is that people on the left and on the right, the people who are doing the accusing and the people who are being accused are full of ish. I I agree that that that Yeah, I agree. The people who come to church and say, "Oh, they were mean to me, they're full of crap." And the people who are in the church are full of crap. That's what I believe. Yes. Everybody is people are not so so so people this is the thing with me right I don't know what is in anybody's heart I agree and I try very hard not to ascribe any motivations to anybody right the Bible says love believes the best, right? If you come with humility and somebody corrects you in a way that you do not like, right? I would expect in humility you recognize your own problems in the I never hear that. That's true. I never hear that. All I hear is they judgmental. They think they were judging you on, "Are you doing it?" It's wrong. No. No. "Are you doing it?" Yeah. They're doing that. It's wrong. Yeah. So, you know, you are not the one that should be calling them judgmental. Yeah. But the woman the woman that they caught in adultery was not the one complaining about the people who caught her in adultery. I agree. I agree. But what we have now is that the people who have been caught in adultery are the ones shouting. This is inappropriate. Bro, there are those people and there are others that if you go to church, if you go to this what and get stoned by church people. I'm just saying it's hard. See, if you go to church smoking, if you go to church smoking, all of us, we have this conscience or we have this cultural sense of right and wrong. If you go to church doing something that is wrong culturally, whatever, right? Right. Uh, and somebody in the church points it out to you, if you are humble, right, your immediate reaction is not to is not to leave. It's not to get the It's not to. It's to acknowledge. You know what? I I do have a problem. You know that guy could have said it nicer, but I do have a problem. That's not what happens. You and I know that's not what happens. What happened? How dare them? How dare them? Who who are they? Born them? I'm
(30:00)PF's Story: Humiliated at His First Church & Why he Stayed
not going. I'm not going to church. In fact, you know what? I'm deconstructing. Yeah, well that happens, but on the other side what I what I also get is what I also get is um not pointing out that what Tunde Makanjuola did was wrong. Mhm. But what kind of a human being are you? How can there's a difference? How can you show up to this church like that's different from someone saying this is wrong? Things are wrong. I'm not trying to you go and say you are what kind of individual are you? Such a terrible person on your way to all that is going out the wrong Do you know what it mean? You know what it means to judge somebody? What does it mean? Let me tell what it means to judge, to say to this person you are, it's over. When judgment is passed, right, the outcome is determined. That's what it means to judge somebody. It means to say to this person you are going to hell, you're destined to hell, you are, you have been judged. And God says we should not judge anybody but we judge all things right PF Unfiltered and you guys I I keep saying this this is not a I'm not I'm not but I'm I'm going to be honest right I don't think it is out of place Jesus Christ took a whip into the temple and was whipping people who were selling stuff in the temple did he ask what they were selling I get that. No, don't you you can't you can't get it and then not get it. Yeah. No, I get it. You're still talking about correction. I agree. Correction. saying there are people in church that are like we know there are people in church that have turned it into a because I show up to church because I'm part of a group because when PF is talking I can flip on my phone while he says I was such a great story and I go back home that I'm I'm a Christian and when somebody else that let's say to point to your point though like not the ones that are not humble enough to realize that okay what I'm doing is wrong that's one part of it someone shows up maybe Christian maybe long-term Christian falling broken there are some people that just point out the correction and say look like don't there are others that we know that don't just say this is wrong they like go hard you are evil you are you should don't be the kind look what kind of dirty person is this like that is the part I'm trying to address as well as the point you're making and and I am saying and I am saying I am saying I am saying as much as I have a problem with the way people talk and the way people express themselves, right? The fundamental. Strip it. Strip it. Right. Some people are just unconscious in their expressions. That's right. Some people are not very eloquent. Right. Some people have dyslexia and things are jumbled, right? There are a million ways people express themselves that are inappropriate. We are constantly expressing ourselves inappropriately. The other day I I came home and I said to my wife, "What of food?" I was translating from it sounds innocent, but in English. I said, "What of food?" And she looked at me, right? And I could see her, are you okay? But what I said was technically not wrong, right? And so I I adjusted, right? I said, is there food? Why do you adjust? Hunger. Hunger was hunger. Hunger was was was was I get it. Let's say people can do better, right? in the way they express themselves. Right? Let's say we need to educate people on how they express themselves to people they don't know. But when we sit down and judge them and say they are self-righteous, they are evil, they are wicked, we're doing exactly the same thing we're accusing them of doing. I agree. I think and that for me is a problem. It's both sides. I That's a problem, right? I think that when somebody comes to church and they have a bad experience in church, if you come to, and this is the problem with our current model of church, it's more a it's more like we're taking people to a concert, right? And we want them to, you know, we like this band, right? And we want them to like the band, right? The whole idea is for people who are already there to grow and for people who are coming in to hear about Christ. That's the whole point of coming to church, right? If you come to church and somebody triggers you and you can't hear Christ anymore. Yeah. Yeah. That that I I get it. I get it. But I didn't bring you here to have a good
(35:00)The Church Is a Hospital Full of Sick People
time, right? I brought you here to hear about Christ, right? And so if somebody triggers you by saying something that you know pinched your pride or pinched your ego or made you feel less than and all of those things, right? I I I get it. But the very point, right, of Christ is to bring us to a place where we're not driven by our ego. We're not driven by our our pride. We're not driven by a lot of the things that trigger us. Right? And and this is the other thing I always say about church. The church is a hospital. It is full of sick people, right? There's nobody. The Bible says not many noble after the manner of this world are in charge. Church is full of people who realize that man, I can't do this thing by myself. I can't be good by myself. I need God. So when you come into a hospital and a patient vomits on you, right? Oh my God. Oh my God. Well, it's it's a hospital. It's a hospital. Everybody here is a patient. Even you, you're a patient. They start acting like you are, you know, you are the chief surgeon. You are a patient. It's both sides. Yes. But that's not how we talk about it. And I and I get irritated when people who have been in the church long enough to know what's going on start acting like, "Oh, well, yeah, you know, we need to change. Listen, I'm a Yoruba man and Yoruba people are historically very inelegant in the way they speak English." When you translate some things from Yoruba to English, inelegant is not the word. It's harsh. It's harsh. Yes. Correction in Yoruba can be very harsh. So when you go to a church with Yoruba people in it and they translating from Yoruba to English, they say things like "what of food" and "what of food" sounds so disrespectful. But how is that disrespectful? You said again that makes sense. Yeah, we know. But we know they're any we know that I refuse to participate in judging anybody. Yeah, but I'm not I'm not even cuz what I think I'm not going to throw stones at anybody. What you're saying makes sense. And I think at the end of the day, the point is Christ. Whether you like you said earlier in the podcast, you said that even Jesus Christ said, "Not everyone who calls me Lord." Lord, the point for all of us should be Christ. I was just trying to like display the nuance on both sides. But I No, you weren't. No, you weren't. No, you weren't. Yes, I was. That's what you did. The correction is whatever your motivation was. Let me tell you what you did. Let me tell what you did. Let me tell what you let me tell you what you tried to do. You tried to sit on the side of those people. I did not know who who watch who who who who act like everybody in church. You know when you come to church they just they just look at you and just abuse you and and insult you. There are some like that. That's all I shared. That's all I said. There are some like that. But but ask yourself this how how any I've experienced pain in church. I've experienced pain in church. Let me tell you a quick story before we wrap up. Just quick story. My first my first experience of church. I got saved in a place called Osogbo and I went to and I I started going to church. I went to three churches. The first church service was like 7 hours. I'm like hell no. Second church service like five and a half hours. I was like never. Second church service was like an hour and a half. Yes, this is my church. And then they they did a prayer meeting. There was a prayer meeting going on and I went for the prayer meeting. I've told this story before and the ushers sat me down on the front row and the pastor, right? Get up. Get up. Get up. What are you doing here? Who are you? Get up, my friend. Will you get to the back? I was humiliated. Everybody stopped praying and they were looking at me. So embarrassing. I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. I thought this man was just rude. Mhm. But I didn't come to the church because of him. I came because of Christ and I met Christ there. His rudeness was a distraction. But my determination to engage with Christ, right, was more paramount to me. And I realized that you know what, Femi? Yeah, he shouldn't have spoken to you like that. Absolutely. But Femi, come on now. You have issues. Your pride was bothered. Yeah, he was rude, but your pride. I agree. He was uncouth. Your pride. He was whatever but your pride. That is what the Holy Spirit does. He points out your own sin, your own issues. But when you can't see your issues, and that's why I kept asking you, number one, are you guilty of the thing? Number two, is it contrary to scripture? When you when you are perfect and they just maltreated you, mistreated you, you get as amen in Jesus name. Well, you know, at the end of the day, I just think that when we want to bring people back to the church and we want to have corrections, as it says in Galatians 6: 1 through 3, dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto
(40:00)Your Weed Guy Doesn't Judge you that's the Point
the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. Share each other's burdens. In this way obey the law and if you think you're too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. You are not that important. And I remember you saying this in a sermon before saying that when you are being there to correct someone, also be prepared to help that person. Don't just correct them and leave them; also also walk on that path with them. That's what the whole point of church community is. Yes. Yes. The scripture you read is is I mean it's scripture. I can't even say it's accurate. It's scripture. It's it's 100%. And that's the point I'm trying to make, right? Yeah. You can't you cannot help somebody, right? By closing your eyes to everything. That's the problem, right? And and one of the reasons why people are not coming to church because church, right, has become a place for people to feel good. There are many ways to feel good. Yeah. A lot though. I know if you there's a if I sit down with I know if I sit down with some weed on Sunday morning. Oh my god, man. I mean there was something else I was thinking about. On Sunday morning, man, I will feel good. What are you talking about? Or sit down with a with a steak, right? Or with some babe. There are many ways to feel good. Church has become another way, another road to the market. And there are many ways to that market. So, so, so people, you know, this is too much. When I go and buy my weed, the weed, my guy doesn't insult me. He doesn't tell me what I'm doing wrong. He doesn't judge me. So, let me go to when I go to church, they will tell me what I'm doing wrong. That church was never about come and just be comfortable. No, church was you need Jesus. You know what Jesus Christ did? He kept going at the Pharisees, going at them, going at them, going at them. He called them you brood of vipers, you know, whited sepulchers. Do you know why he went at them? So that they could see that the way they were living was not right. If church is not going at people right and making people feel uncomfortable with the way that they are living, guess what? They will never accept Christ. They will never. People accept Christ because they want to get closer to God and they cannot find a way. But in that context, would you say the Pharisees, they were the ones that that thought they had the the religious law. Yes. The way they were going about it was not what it was intended. In this case, yes, the Pharisees are not my example. Think that they have the scriptures, but No, I don't agree. The Pharisees, the church and the Pharisees are two different people. They're Pharisees in church. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Sorry. The church is. Yeah. I'm trying to the the the people there are people in church who think they they know everything. That's what I was trying to get. But that's the thing though, right? If you remain in church, if you are doing church every Sunday, there's a part of you that that knows even those people who call Pharisees will tell you that I'm here to learn. There's they are open to some learning. But then the folks who come from outside right who come to have a wonderful experience are not open to learning. They're just disturbed that their experience has been disturbed. Their comfort has been disturbed. They are the entertainment. This thing I'm I'm this favor I'm doing for resting on Sunday morning. Somebody has one usher insulted me. Right. How dare you insult me? I know that there are there are people that have had terrible experiences, right? But it is not everybody who is on this on this table that has had a terrible experience. True. It's not everybody. True. A vast majority are just as bad as the people they're complaining about. Okay. I guess so. What was one thing you would wrap? What was one thing you would say, um, to that individual that has had a Why am I laughing? Had a look on her face like, "This man." This man. I was just ready to hear the the wise words that you had to say. Okay, get ready. I'm I'm all pumped. I'm not comfortable with it. You could go. What I was trying to say was, to wrap, like what to one, like if there's somebody out there that's obviously struggling, and to your point you've struggling with what with with going back to whether it is whether it is to your point, like going back to church or was hurt by something and they went they're they're going around to different churches but they've not you know they've not stabilized they just keep searching, right? What would you say to someone that is quote-unquote lost in a sense, but still has the the
(45:00)What Would You Say to Someone Who Left the Church?
heart, not the ones that are not humble, but the ones that still have the heart for God? They're just struggling in whatever difficulty that they experienced. Number one, you will never find a perfect church. Never look in the mirror. If you don't see perfection, you have no right to demand perfection, right? You will never find a perfect church. If you if you have days where you are off and you talk to people out of the wrong side of your mouth, you're going to meet people like you in church who will talk to you out of the wrong side of their mouth. If you have days where you are just downright mean, you're going to meet people in church who are going to be mean, right? Everybody you meet in church is going to be in a way like you. So if you're perfect, then you go to church with this expectation of perfection. And well, they've been in church longer than I have. Uh, has nothing to do with that. Everybody's on a journey and the where they are on their journey is up to the Holy Spirit, right? So that's one. If you're really sincere about finding Christ, keep searching. Absolutely. Keep searching. I don't mind you going from church to church searching. But understand this, you are never going to find a group of or a community of perfect people. What you will find and what you should be looking for is a place where the truth is being spoken even when it hurts you even when it makes you feel uncomfortable. Is it the truth? Is it what the Bible says? Right? If you go to a place where you don't experience any discomfort either from what you are hearing or through the Holy Spirit and what you are hearing there there's there's a bit of a challenge. There's a bit of a challenge right now. Your ability to tune it out is not what I'm talking about cuz we're very good at tuning out stuff. Right? But if you hear it and you click the tune out button, that's on you. You know what I'm saying? That makes sense. So, how would I bring people back to church? Tell them that, you know what, you're a dirty sinner. You're going to hell. Oh my gosh. Unless you accept Jesus Christ as your I like how you pause for like two seconds and then do Jesus Christ. You're going to go to Let me tell you something. If people do not feel like they are sinners and going to hell, what do they why why would they come to Christ? Because Christ is grace. Because Christ is is the way, the truth, and the life. Because the weed and the sex temporary pleasure Christ is a well test. The Bible says he he that he that is filled who he who has filled his stomach with um nonsense when they see honey and they won't eat it. That makes sense. There's a hunger that needs to exist. Have you ever been in a place where you're so frustrated with your life? You're so frustrated with your choices. You're so frustrated with your outcomes, right? Everything you've tried, nothing has brought you fulfillment. Nothing has brought you satisfaction. Nothing has changed your outcomes, right? And then somebody says, "This is the way." That is what happens. And that is why we're not seeing a lot of conversions in church because people are not getting frustrated with their lives anymore. We find ways of making them feel comfortable with their lives. We find Jesus Christ did not even pity his boy when Peter was talking right, he said you are the flesh and blood did not reveal this one to you; then he turned around and said, "Get behind me, Satan." If Jesus had said that to Peter now, he'd be on social media, dragged and how can he call himself the Christ? Oh my God. How can you call him the devil? Oh wow, get thee behind—call him Satan? That's rather harsh. Totally, or when he said to the woman, uh um, "the children's food to dogs." That was kind of wild. Oh my God, they would have dragged him. It would be all the blogs. Uh-oh. Jesus Christ called a woman a dog. Misogynistic, racist, everything, they would have called him. That's a good point, right? And and that's what we're dealing with now. I just want us to go back to facing what is important. And what is important is not good feelings. It's good vibes. It's not good vibes. We're chasing good vibes. It's not good vibes. Well, um, there you have it. I know I'm going to get in trouble for this episode, but I mean, I'm ready. I think you did a good job. I wish you could do the whole Game of Thrones end where like we just cut. We don't even say like, subscribe, just cut. Just quiet. But again, if you if you are if you are touched by by the message and if you understand that at the end of the day, it's all about Christ. It's all about Jesus, man. It's all about Jesus. I mean, Jesus Christ told parables, you know, he he told parables that, you know, he said to the rich young ruler, he said to the rich young ruler that, you know, even a rich man eh is easier
(50:00)Wrap Up: "Read Your Bible"
for a camel to pass through the I mean that's that's very judgmental. Very judgmental. Read your Bibles is what he's saying. That is PF in PF Unfiltered, and we'll catch you guys in the next one. Jesus was good. He was not nice. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Jesus was good. He was not looking. Anybody think Jesus was nice? I don't think so. People said that Jesus was kind of gangster. Yeah. All right. Hey, read your Bible. Imagine that's the caption PF Unfiltered.