(0:00)Pharisees vs. Works: The Cultural Clash
The church in America does not look down on the church in Nigeria. It's the church in Nigeria that looks down on the church in America. They tell we're not we're not good Christians. Yeah. Because we're not heavy on works. Yeah. Right. But we are heavy on sin. They are heavy on works. But they're like Pharisees. Sin. Pharisee. Sorry. Children of the same mother. Yeah. Absolutely. Unfiltered. [Music] No. So, you're waiting for me, Abby? Yeah. You going to introduce the episode or what? Is that what we agreed on? We didn't agree on anything. You guys just Okay. Welcome to another episode of PF Unfiltered. My name is Premier M and I am the PF in PF. And these two I don't know what they doing here today. They have nothing in the title. It's no vibes. What's your name again? Esther Griffin. And And the other guy, that one with the hat. Yeah. Send him my controller. Yes, sir. Okay. See, that was easy. That was easy, right? You should do the introduction. I'm telling you, man. And I killed it, right? Yeah, we did. You did a really good job. You should know job. That's how you do it, man. Yes, sir. No, look, PF, you're expert at this thing, though. You in front of the camera is like chef's kiss. Thank you. No, let's ask him what the episode title of it is. Let's ask PF, what is this title? What's this episode titled? I I don't bother myself with redundancies. I mean, like, what difference does it make? Fair enough. Another episode. That's you want to say it the way like I normally say it. Welcome to another I I don't do that c thing. Welcome to another episode. It's like you're introducing a kind of
(1:36)Born in DC, Raised in Diaspora
Well, I'm actually really excited about this episode cuz I feel like it comes up a lot in my family. Yeah. And that I tend to see that when I go to Nigeria, when I travel there, I was born in America, born and raised in Washington DC. I've now moved to Dallas, Texas. Oh, you're a DC girl. Hold on. I thought I thought you were like Brooklyn or something. 35mm. You said that. Come on. Stop. I was from Brooklyn. My accent is not even thick enough to this is a DC girl. No. No. PF of that family go back like n I couldn't mention she never did. I've never even lived in New York. Never. That would be that would be Let's go on. We're not bashing jurisdictions. We're not myself bashing. But to to the point I was making, I feel like, you know, like being raised in America, when I go to Nigeria, I see people act very differently. And so this topic What's the between DC and Nigeria? I know, right? This is a There's a difference. There's a difference. This is like This is like Let everyone This is like the This is not in America. Ah, why not? This is the hood of the hood. Not anymore. Really? Yeah. Trump is wreaking havoc. He's going to collect him. Yeah. Oh, there you go. Um but uh yeah, so I'm really excited about this topic and today what we're really talking about is um faith in a foreign land um and how it differs from you know Africa to a you know to to Asia to you know the Americas um to the European countries. So that's what we're talking about. That's an interesting topic. Whose idea was this topic? I wonder who was it? Who's which of the producers? Faith in the foreign land. Aqua come to the front. Was it you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Aqua come to the foreign land. It was him. Yeah. Our producer foreign faith in a foreign land. Okay.
(3:21)Is Your Faith Tethered to God or Community?
Did you Okay. Actually, did you do you feel like your faith can someone's faith can be influenced if they migrate from Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. If your faith is not feeded in the word, right? Then wherever it is you are right will will will impact your faith. It's it's inevitable right and a lot of us our faith was not tethered in the word. A lot of us our faith was tethered in the community right in in in um in family. Yeah. Right. And when you move when you change those things you think about it. If you if you plant uh a tree in a particular kind of soil you take that same tree and plant a different type of so it's going to impact it. Yeah. isn't going to impact it and and the place where you plant it can sometimes even stunt it and other places can you know be like fertilizer to it. So it depends on your faith. I'm curious for you when you moved from Nigeria to Europe cuz you were in Austria first. Yeah. How did that change in terms of the way that you dealt with people and like showing up? I think so. The example that I wanted to give earlier is like when I went to when I go to Nigeria and I go with like some of my aunts, they are the nicest people in America, but once we land at that Muella airport in Lagos, they turn into different people. I'm like, I actually didn't know that you can raise your voice. Yeah. Or that you could be stern. So, I think for you coming from Nigeria out to Europe, how do you feel like your ch your faith changed in terms of the outward appearance of like dealing with people and showing the fruits of like who you were internally? Okay. I know this is going to sound really so I I I left Nigeria as a pastor to go and pastor right so it wasn't so much the environment influencing my faith right as opposed to me creating an environment right that would nourish my faith I was the I was the I was the one building the community so to speak you know what I mean so I had a bit more control over what it it looked like. So my experience would be a little different than a lot of people. Mhm. But I was sensitive to the environment. I was aware. Yeah. So in Europe, right, um it's it's it's not as Europe is uh some countries in Europe said they are post Christianity. What does that mean? They've left. This is after Christianity. Okay. Yeah. They're very secular, right? Very very secular. They're not, you know, churches become nightclubs. Churches are people buy churches and live in churches. You know, the the whole thing about religion is is is is seen as uh is problematic for many people in in Europe. So the general community is very secular.
(6:09)Why Europe and America Change Your Faith
Right. The Nigerians cuz I am a Nigerian. I know that we have audiences all over the world, but I'm a Nigerian. So, you know, um the Nigerian community in Europe is still as religious. Mhm. As in Nigerian community in Nigeria, right? The only difference is that in Europe, the rhythms of life are different. Yeah. The work schedule is different. Yeah. Most offices in Nigeria, it's a 9 to5. Mhm. Most places shut down at 5:00. Yeah. Right. In Europe, it's not like that. Right. You're doing shifts and sometimes your shifts are at night. Right. So, people are working around the clock. Yeah. which will impact their ability to be in church, right? Um people don't have the help, right? So in Nigeria, you've got a house help, you've got a driver, you know, you they don't have a lot of domestic support in Europe. So you know, you're watching your kids again, church is going to fall in the back on the back burner. In Nigeria, you could tell your boss, "Oh, we have night vis." In Europe, your boss is looking at you less because you say you have night vision, you know. And then move to America. America is a different kettle of fish. America is a America is an is a parts of America are extremely religious. Mhm. The south where we are. The south. Yeah. The south. Some parts of the Midwest. Um but it's a different kind of religious. It's a religious mixed sometimes with nationalist favor. Right. It's it's it's it's so so in America you've got the evangelicals. Y right. The evangelicals are very similar to what in Nigeria you would call the Orthodox churches, right? But they're not the Orthodox churches. They are just churches, right? Um but very similar in in in outlook. But again, the rhythms of life in America very different from in Nigeria, right? In America is a very capitalist society. even though it is not as post-Christian as Europe even though it is not as you know um anti-urch as Europe because the church is strong in America right you know the the constitution protects the church the constitution you know in many ways favors the church right churches in America if you are properly registered don't pay tax right um but the rhythms of life are
(8:35)The Brutal Reality of American Hustle
real here you know work is work here is is you have to go to work yes you do and even more than Europe Europe has a strong welfare state. The the American welfare system is not non-existent almost. It is there, but it's, you know, in comparison. Yeah. So, you're doing two shifts to make ends meet. You're doing three shifts to make ends meet. Right. You're doing four shifts to make ends. You're working around the clock. Yeah. To pay your bills, right? So, again, there's less time Mhm. for for religious activity. Yeah. I.e. there's less time for church, right? So what differs right across the continent is the ability to conduct religious activity right how favorable is the environment to conduct religious activity right it's the same thing in Nigeria right you chase money right Nigeria is an incredibly materialistic society incredibly materialistic society in Nigeria if you don't have money you are nothing you're you're literally Nothing. And people treat you like that. People treat you like Well, even or even when it comes to like where like the family that you come from, right? Like it's like your name.
(9:45)The Spirit of Mammon: Nigeria's Headquarters
Yeah. Your name. But that name is usually attached to money. Yes. It's in in in [ __ ] people, you know, people talk about, you know, the spirit of Mammon in the west. The spirit of Mammon has big headquarters Nigeria. Nigeria and has a second house in America and a third house in Europe. But Nigeria is as materialistic if not more materialistic than America. Right. And I'll tell you why I say that. In Nigeria, if you don't have money, you are nothing. Yeah. Like you are nothing. You have no rights, right? You you you are less than. In America, you can maybe you don't have money, but you're a human being and you be treated accordingly. Yeah. Right. So the it's an existential threat to not have there. Yeah. as opposed to here, right? Yeah. So, it's the same thing in terms of finance, financial status, the pursuit of money. Yeah. Right. Everybody pursues money. It's just that the hustle is different. Yeah. Here, you can't hit, you can't hammer. If you hammer here, right? And that means, for those who don't know, it means that you wake up and you're a millionaire overnight, right? You that if you if that happens to you here, you stole something. Yeah. Or you won the lottery. Or you won the lottery. And even then after you win the lottery in 5 years time you be broke again. Yeah. The only way you make money here is to grind hard. Yeah. Or you were born with it and you manage to keep it like a trust one baby. Yeah. Or you Yes. You know you trust one baby. So your attachment to your job, right, is is critical here. So wealth is built incrementally more often than not. Occasionally you have people who stumble into it, but for the vast majority wealth is built built incrementally. Yeah. In Nigeria is different. You could actually wake up one day, your friend becomes the governor and you're a multi-millionaire. You could hit one deal and you can hammer, right? So the hustle is different, right? But everybody got to hustle. You hustle there, you hustle here. And that hustle curtails your ability to make money. Yeah. The only difference is that in Nigeria,
(11:51)Church vs. The Hustle: The Divine Gamble
there's this belief that I can combine church and hustle to make money. To make money. So I appease God, you know, I I go to church because I need God to open the doors for me to hammer here. If I do my job, I show up on time, I work hard, save, put money aside in my 401k, I'll be fine. It it it shows you the difference in the levels like in the systematic levels of faith almost. Yes. So there's a lot of faith. Faith is necessary in Nigeria to prosper. Yeah. Right. You need to have faith, right? You need to have faith to survive the drive home, right? Here, h not so much. Here, do your job. Show up on time. Pay attention. It's predictable. It's predictable. So, people relax. Yeah. On their faith, right? But you see, that's the problem though. Right. Right. There. It's not It's not a diaspora problem. Yeah. It's a your the nature of your faith. Yeah. That's the issue, right? If your faith is attached to religious activity, the more time I spend in church, the more time I I spend, you know, in prayer, the more God will bless me. Yeah. Right. I have time in Nigeria. I have a lot of time in Nigeria. Once the office closes at 5, what am I doing? When I get home, there's no electricity. Right. So, I can Right. So, invariably, I can I can be in church every evening. here. Shoot. I can't. There's no time. Yeah. But if I show up at work, right, I'm going to get paid. Yeah. So, I don't need to be in church to get paid.
(13:34)Code-Switching: Are You Faking It?
I have a question though. What about like the the the Okay. Apart from the the systematic stuff, can we go back a little bit to the um behavioral stuff? Right. So, like I referenced earlier because I think it's so interesting to me that I can go somewhere and people change. Like it's like I'm you're no longer a Christian. We call it we call it code switching right here. That's what it is. It's code switching. It's when you switch your accent. Okay. Right. When you're talking to folks at work. Yeah. Right. You have a certain accent and if somebody who has never heard you in that setting hears you speak, they'll be like, "Ah, is this the same Esther?" Right. Where nobody can tell Yeah. that you have you have African extraction? Yeah. Right. your full DC accent comes out, you know, and the gestures and the head shakes, everything comes out and I've seen you do it, right? So, I know it's there, right? It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. But, but but in the same breath, a couple of Nigerians come around, you drop a few, [Laughter] you know, you drop a few things and they know you're one of us, it's the same thing, right? So there's a way that you behave here, right? And everybody looks at you like, "Oh god, you're so crass." But there's a way that you behave. You behave that people like, "Oh, you're so stupid. You're going to get taken advantage of." Yeah. So you're more aggressive. Yeah. Right. Because you feel like you have to protect yourself. Mhm. Here you don't feel that need as strongly in some places. If where if you're in New York, you better be assertive. You better be assertive, right? If you're in the Midwest and you're sudden people look at you like, "What's your problem?" Yeah. Everything is so laid-back. So again, it is what it is, right? We are human beings and we adapt. Yeah. Right. But for me, the challenge is this assumption, right, that when people get here, their faith gets weaker, right? Their faith gets weaker because they never had faith. H see if your faith eh is in Christ does Christ change whether you are in Lagos or in boys? No because you still depend on him regardless speaking no but again like seems like we we we change our faith. No but that's the thing though you see this thing our faith is not in Christ our faith is in our religious fervor. I agree right and that faith is productive. So I am very fervent right in religious activity. Yeah. Night video, church fellowship, all of those things because I need God in a way that is existential. Right. But but I guess the thought process is like if I do these things then these things will be will follow along opposed to those things are going to follow along regardless of if you do all of these. Yes. But when you get here, right? Yeah. You don't need to do all those things, right? If your faith was genuine, right, you would still be doing them. But do you think that the culture teaches that, right? Like, no, it's not the culture. It has nothing to do with the culture. It has to do with your faith. And and on that point, P, I have a I have a I have a different take. So, I also think that the faith that is exhibited in Nigeria is also not genuine. But that's what I'm saying though. Okay. That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. When you said it was use, well, not useful. You said it was productive. in terms of you have to they're working they're working it's transactional it's transactional problematic right which is that a I I need to give God x amount of faith to get b amount of protection now I get to America I realize that I'm getting a higher grade of protection and I don't need to give God as much you know what I'm saying if it was that it's genuine you going to give him that regardless of what the circumstance around so the reason why people attend church less here. Mhm. Is because they need God less here. In quote. Yeah. Materially speaking. Materially speaking, if you do your 40 hours, the boss that will not pay you your moneyh, that boss is looking for trouble. Seriously. As as small as you are, you can sue him. Absolutely. There are lawyers who will take on your case on the premise that when they get the money from your boss, they will get paid. Absolutely. It has nothing to do with your status. Nothing. Has nothing to do with your background. doesn't know your connections. Do you have a case? Yes. That can't happen in Nigeria. Your boss can wake up and say, "Sorry, the company didn't make money today. I have to go to London for the for weekend with my wife and children, so I'm not paying you this weekend." And nothing will happen. You will shout and you will scream and if you talk too much, you bring police and they beat you up. So the fundamental problem is to the is the individual faith. That's that's the point. Whe in Nigeria, in the UK, in the United States, but when you're in Nigeria, when you're in Nigeria looking here, Mhm. You see the ferveny of people but that ferveny again right is in religious activity. It is in going to church. It is in midnight prayers. Right. That is what you see. But if you take away the need, right? Give them 24-hour electricity. Would that faith still be there? You won't see that ferveny. Yeah. Yeah. Give them job security. So would you say the faith protection in the West is more genuine? No. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's not a comparison. There's none. So, so here, right? Yeah. People don't need in quotes. Mhm. Right. God for the things that we need him for in Nigeria. Right. In Nigeria, we need God for basic survival. Yeah. You don't need God for basic survival. The government will give you basic survival. Right. Right. So, we actually have more filthy to the government here. So, we're very diligent. Those of us who pay taxes without taxes, right? We're very big on our civic duties. Those of us who are engaged, you know what I'm saying? Because we've come to realize that you know what it's not in God I trust it's in government I trust. You get my point. So we engage in the political discourse because we realize that the government impacts our our wellbe in the same way that someone else would engage in religious discourse because they believe that it is God that impacts their wellbe. So our faith right if it is transactional right where there is less need for that transaction our faith will appear to be less. So folks in Nigeria are very judgmental. Mhm. about the guys in the west because they're like, "Oh, you people don't know how to pray. You people don't pray as much." I don't have to pray the way you are praying because I have electricity. Yeah. But I I was born and raised here and I agree with that. Yeah. Because you have that tendency. Well, I don't think we pray enough here though. Wait, wait. So, so wait, wait. You don't think we talk to God enough here? I don't think so. Really? I think I think as a I think as a n I think the US as a nation is very prideful. Really? And you think Nigerians are not prideful? I I'm going to stick by what I say. No, I'm asking a question. But let's talk let's talk it out. No, I'm asking a question for the and and Okay, so I love Esther's perspective, but that is the problem right there, right? Faith is seen in this demonstrations of piety, right? So somebody is at night vigil every single night vigil, but he's a thief. No, he's still a thief. Yeah, but why why why why are you going to say because he's he's at night vigil every single night, right? his faith is more genuine. Not not that it's genuine, right? Is what? But I think that there is a level of pride that we have in America when it comes to we think that we have it all. Right. And we don't we Okay, here's here are my thoughts, right? In terms of prayer, right? I've lived in Nigeria. I've lived in America. I think there's a I think there's a good culture in the discipline of prayer, consistent prayer, right, that we have in Nigeria, right? In America, we don't have the same type of disciplines, those these good disciplines in America. I don't think we do. And and this is the problem. This is the problem, right? You're looking at prayer, right? And and God never does this. God never looks at the outward expressions. He looks at the heart. Yeah. Right. When I am praying m Why am I praying? Am I praying from faith? Am I praying from fear? That's number one. Number two, when I am praying, what am I praying for? Right? What is the basis of my prayer? Yeah. Prayer is a communication with God and talking to God. That's what prayer is. Yeah. We treat prayer as if it is some kind of medication, right? Likeh aspirin takes seven tablets of it. Mhm. No. Prayer is a conversation, right? And that conversation is between me and God. Right? The fact that you have disciplined yourself to pray does not make your prayer virtuous. If you treat prayer like it's aspiring. Okay. Right. It doesn't say that one more time. So, so the fact that you are going to night video. Yeah. Right. And your faith is in that night video, not in God. Do you think God regards that prayer? It says people worship me with their lips or their hearts are far from So yes, America, some folks here have a tendency to be prideful. Mhm. Right. But some folks in Africa have a tendency to be very prideful. Yeah. Because they think that they're they're they're so so what you see their the power is in what they're doing. Exactly. Yeah. But what you are saying is that well they do that thing better. It's of no use to you if your faith is not in God but your faith is in your prayer. So what happens? So when you get to America and your boss does not give you time off to pray. What will you do then? Exactly. And that happens here a lot. Pray at your desk. You pray at your desk. You pray at your desk. You pray for the pray at your desk. Deal with that person in their life. Please don't misunder. I'm not saying that everybody I'm not saying that everybody who is praying in in in Nigeria is not sincere. Yeah. Everybody I think is sincere. But this is the problem, right? It is not about how hard or how often you pray. Yeah. It is about how connected to God you are. He says if you abide in me right and my words abide in you will bear fruit and you will ask me for anything. M how many times the most powerful prayers in the Bible were the shortest prayers. Wow, that is good. When Jesus Christ raised Lazarus from the dead. Yeah. But he had spent time with God in communion. He's the same guy who prayed so fervently that he was sweating blood. Right. He's the same guy who said to his disciples, you can't t with me for 1 hour. Right. But we have this blanket rule. If it is not long, it is not powerful. Oh yeah. And in and back real quick because I was thinking upstairs. I was thinking about how you know it's yours. Just remind me just I just need to say so I won't forget remind me to tackle this in tongues for like 12 hours thing that people do in Nigeria and then they bring it to America and it's like oh if you don't pray in tongues for like a certain amount of time like that's a cultural I learned that from being Nigerian. I don't know that America's spend time in prayer for I know like IHOP they do like so international house of prayer they'll do like the 24hour prayer houses and stuff. This is what prayer should be. Sorry. Prayer the length of your prayer should be determined by the weight of your burden one and by how God interacts with you in the place of prayer. Mhm. If you're praying right and you are lecturing God, you can pray for 10 days. But remember that prayer is communication. Yeah. It's not you babbling on, right? So you talk to God and you wait for God to talk to you. You listen to God. And sometimes you listen in silence, right? I am a fervent believer in praying in tonesues, in praying in the Holy Spirit. Right? So I pray in tonesues regularly and for long periods but that is not the basis of my faith. I understand that when I pray in tonesues the Holy Spirit is communicating to my spirit. Yeah. So I have to make time to have that communication to my spirit downloaded to my mind. Mhm. Right. But I don't sit down with a log book counting how many hours you have prayed. Mhm. And judging your spirituality based off of that. Yeah. Right. I don't judge the efficacy of your prayer by the length of it. The Bible says the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avail makes power available. Not the effectual strong fervent. Elijah prayed that there will be no rain. And what was that prayer that he prayed? Just a sentence. Just a sentence. The prayer that he prayed that was heavy on gymnastics was after Jezebel had dealt with him. Mhm. The prayer that brought down fire was a very short prayer. But once fear entered him, he sat down. He put his head between his knees and he prayed. And then he sent his messenger to go and look. He said nothing. He did it again. Nothing. Did again. Then there was a small cloud. The prayer that he just said, "Lord, let fire fall without putting his head between his knees without you know all of that stuff. It was very he was very powerful." Right? So the point I'm trying to make is this, right? Prayer is not powerful. God is powerful. Prayer connects us to God. Right? When we start to see prayer as the power, eh, we've missed it. That's good. Right. Prayer is not God is powerful. God is powerful. So prayer is my connection to God. So it's not prayer, it's God. And God says, I will never leave you nor forsake you. Right? If for any reason I lose my tongue, then what happens then? What happens? I lose my voice. What happens? This is good. Right? And those are the kind of things that I'm saying that it is not about where you are. It's about your level of understanding, right? The church in Nigeria is very religious. Extremely religious. Yeah. The church in America is extremely religious in a different way. Yeah. Religious. Both of them. The folks in Nigeria are very judgmental. Oh, you people in America, you don't know how to pray. That's fine. The folks in America are very judgmental too in their own way. Yeah. So as far as I'm concerned, council is the same to end. It's just the different shades of the same thing. Right. So the church in America is proud. The church in Nigeria is materialistic. None of it is good. Mhm. I think I think let's redirect the conversation not to how long you pray but to who are you praying and why are you praying. Right? If we have a faith that is built on our fasting, on our prayer, on the spiritual disciplines, we've got a problem. Our faith is not built on our disciplines. Our faith is built on Christ, the solid rock. All of those disciplines are supposed to help us communicate and interact with him. But when we elevate those disciplines, right, as God in themselves, and everybody will tell that's not what I'm doing, right? But yeah. Yeah, that's what you're doing. Because, you know, my my my father said something to me when I first got saved. I I I I was pastoring a fellowship and I had to pray for a few hours before I could preach. Mhm. And one day something happened and I couldn't pray and I was losing my mind. I couldn't do that praying for in tongues for hours, right? Yeah, I thought that was a prerequisite to preach and I was getting all the really think whether you've prayed in hours by hours or not. Yeah. Right. The donkey that God spoke to, how many hours did he pray for? Are you a willing vessel? Trust God. Put your faith in God. Don't put your faith in your your ability to pray. And I continued in that same vein of praying for hours before every sermon for years. for years. Even after he said that. Even after he said that, because he's just my dad. I've got all these pastors telling me that you cannot climb the pulpit if you have not knelt down before the throne for for hours before the altar. Which altar, by the way, which altar? That's another conversation. This altars. No, but that's what I wanted to address because what you the question you had asked initially about how like all the comparison you made of like it's Americans or western prayers people are prideful and they don't know how to pray. They don't know how to pray but at least Nigerian I don't want to say they don't know how to pray. They don't pray enough. They don't pray enough which is obviously measuring the quality of prayer based on the quantity and and what that is based on is like us going to American churches, right? Like I grew up in American churches. I grew up in Nigerian churches. Let me ask you guys a question. If the Nigerian church, if prayer is so powerful, prayer by itself is so powerful separate from God. Let ask you a question. Should Nigeria be the way it is? The number of churches in Nigeriah, there are more churches in Nigeria than schools. Why is Nigeria going backwards? Because they pray and miss. No, they used to be this running joke. We pray. finish that scripture because they are praying to squander. Why? It's it's factual. So So if our Christianity is so strong and so genuine, yeah, every day we're fasting for Nigeria, Nigeria is getting worse. If a person in Nigeria, an individual in Nigeria was praying the way the Nigerian church is praying for his personal circumstance. The Nigerian church will judge that person and say, "God is not answering your prayer. There must be something wrong with you." Yeah. Why isn't the Nigerian church God is not answering our prayer? There's something wrong with us. It just reminds me of the Israelites. Like literally, that's how they that's how they used to think. Yeah. I mean, but if you think about it too, I know that's an example. Like if we get super serious, that's that's who we are. Yeah. Like if we I mean, not to condemn anyone, if we look at it, we say we we maker, miracle work, promise keeper, and these songs are beautiful, but when the situation arises, our fruits reveal that our faith is really shallow. And again, shallow faith in Nigeria equals to shallow faith in America. Yeah. Regardless of where that is why when you get to America, right? And I I'm not trying to exclude the non- Nigerians, please. When you get to America, you don't need to pray as much. So, you don't pray as much cuz it was never about talking to God. It was about getting from God. Now that you don't need as much from God, why am I talking to him? But even that is still problematic. No, I agree with you. Yeah. It's it's it's a transactional formulaic approach to the things of God. Right? And that is why that is why you cannot see if this topic is problemat if you if me as an individual every day I'm doing night video. Yeah. When is my birthday right? We'll do 21 days prayer for fe me and all my friends and instead my circumstances are getting worse. Yeah. Yeah, the church will gather and say, "Brother Fei, God is mad at you. Why is God not the amount of prayer you are praying for?" Brother Fe is crazy. The amount of praying they they will vilify me and hang me that there must be some terrible sin in my life that the God is not answering my prayer. Why is God not answering the prayer of the church? Because can I be honest with you? Yeah. Let me let me leave it. Be honest with us. Unfiltered. Our our our Christian in Nigeria is is not is not Christianity is Judaism. It's a form of Judaism. It is built on rules and regulations, not on faith in Christ. It is built on works. And again, it is not all the churches and it is not every church and it is not every Christian. Yeah. Right. And again, in America, we have a different version of the problem, but we have the same problem. Right. Yes. Well, yeah. It's just a different manifestation of it. But the church in America does not look down on the church in Nigeria. It's the church in Nigeria that looks down on the church in America. They tell you we're not we're not good Christians because we're not heavy on works. Yeah. Right. But we are heavy on sin. They are heavy on works, right? But they're like Pharisees. See, say selfrighteousness. Sorry. Children of the same mother. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's interesting because even though we're using Nigeria as example, I can I can say for my friends from the Caribbean, they can attest to this. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing from the Caribbean. Please, you know, I'm international or whatever. Yeah. But I do want to touch on this. What do you think about We haven't been to those places, but obviously you know a lot of pastors in a lot of different places. What do you mean think about the churches in like China, India, you know, the Asian the Asian um so so a lot of the pastors that I have met who have gone there come back um it changes them because they see people who connect with God, right? And it has nothing to do with their material circumstances. People are praying not for a bigger house or a better job or a newer car. People are just excited about God. Not what God can do and what God will bring. Right? They don't talk in terms of how this Christianity doesn't work. Ah, Christianity works, right? They don't talk about it like that. They talk about things that you would see in the Bible, right? They are excited about the life of Christ and the Holy Spirit, not excited about how oh because they know that they live in circumstances that have if there's any change in their if there's any possible change in their circumstance in terms of materially Yeah. is is is is almost like winning the lottery here. Circumstances don't change like that. Yeah. But people change. Mhm. Right. My my problem with the church right um in in my home country is that we have become like Pharisees and we have forgotten about Christ. Right? And my problem with the church in America is the same. We have become like Pharisees and we forgotten about Christ. So in America the church is silent while things that are uncristlike is going on. Mhm. In Nigeria, the church is silent while things are on Christ like is going on. Oh, no. I thought you were going to say in Nigeria the church is loud while things are on Christ like is going on. If you go to some churches in Nigeria, all the political leaders are there. It's so interesting. All I I I've been to a church where the front row was full of all the traditional rulers in that region. All of them. All the senior bank executives in that region. all the political office holders in that region, senior military leaders in that region, right? The first two, three rows and they are there every time there's a service which is so insane. And what happens to the country? What happens to that region? So, so, so what's the So, what's the I guess and you've you've been consistent in painting this picture for us in terms of like our faith, right? General doesn't matter the geographic location. What is the way forward? M Christ the message of Jesus Christ is not see we we bash the the prosperity gospel right the prosperity gospel is very problematic. Mhm. Right. Because it implies that that in this world you will not have problems if you are if you and God are good. Right. Steven awesome Christian was stoned to death. All the apostles died badly. The second one. Which one? John. John. How he cut his head off? No. The one that died on the island of Patmos. Yes. Yeah. In exile. But it was quiet. It was quiet. Okay. Thank God for that. We create this impression. Well, actually, the Bible doesn't say that, so we don't actually know. But we create this impression, right, that difficulty is an indication of sin. It is not about Christ. It's about comfort. M people are looking for God not for God, right? But for what? For comfort. They're looking for God. For comfort. So, um uh and if they don't get comfort, you know what they do? They turn around. What did you say? You said that is an indication of sin. What? Yeah. If you're going through difficulty is an indication of sin, which is not the case. Which is not true. It's not true. Is it in this this in my own experience? Is it possible for for problems to happen? But this is where I'm making a case for prosperity gospel if it's made the right way right first and everything on to you right but there's clearly a hierarchy everything all all other things or all that all other things right but there's clearly a hier is that what it says oh what I'm what I'm trying to address is like he's our pastor I'm just asking is that what it says that's what it says it says take no thought to what you will eat and what you will drink and what you will wear your father in heaven knows that you need these things. Yeah. Right. So, seek first the kingdom of God and all these things. What are those things will be added onto you? It didn't say a 20,000 foot private jet. Yeah. I mean, it didn't say a yacht. Mhm. It didn't say a luxury car or 5,000. We didn't say 10,000 foot house. Yeah, I get that. But I feel like No, no, it's important. It's important. So when you talk about the prosperity gospel, the prosperity gospel, right, not prosperity, the prosperity gospel. Mhm. Right. Is problematic because it implies, right, that if you come to Christ, your car won't break down on the side of the road, which is not true. But I feel like that's back to PF's earlier point on the quality of that particular individual's faith. Yes. It's always so the point I'm trying to make in summary and I know those of you who are coming for me are still going to come for me but come I found a way to deal with you. Did I say that out loud? You did. I did. Okay. Don't worry about Don't worry about it. In prayer. In prayer. In prayer. In prayer. In prayer guys. But come. It's okay. Let's talk. But this is what I will say. Right. The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter where you are. Right. Right. Your faith will show. Yeah. Right. If you are in a certain environment, your faith will be loud. Yeah. Right. And if you're in another environment, that same faith, it hasn't grown. It hasn't diminished. It's just what was there. Right. Where you are brings out what is inside you. Right. That's the point I'm trying to make. And I get and the reason why to to make to take it from cultural faith to personal faith. M the reason why I raise that up again is because in my own life the way I can assess like in that moment where I'm at in my own faith is for example this is how I see it and P let me know your thoughts EA please if I know that I have a $75 million in a high yield savings account that's a lot of money okay$ 15 million that's still a lot but 1 million in a high yield savings account and I know that Mhm. M and let's say for example my attachment is my job as we were saying earlier in last episode security that's why that's what that's my security if let's say there's movement and and in and and government shutdown I'm working in a government public services whatever and there's a threat of me losing my job how I react lets me know without just what where I'm putting my source right so and that's still tuned as a human in that situation that's probably going to fall sick. That's sit still in his unglorified body. But it's still a a metric by which I can measure that okay hold up like where am I placing my faith on a personal level? And even though that might be a little bit extreme, this is just how I operate. It allows me to see, oh man, you need God, right? Or you've gotten so comfortable with your material possessions that you think that's the real source of it. M so I'm flipping that back to you in terms of like okay we know that PF has been talking to us about Christ and Christ and Christ but for whatever reason maybe it's a time thing maybe you know Rome wasn't built in the day Mhm. It's not registering. Yeah, you can't. It's not that it's not registering. It's that you you you you are you have to renew your mind. It's a process. And that's why I keep talking. Okay. Right. Because I realize that you have spent 20 something 30 something years. Mhm. Right. That God is a vending machine, right? A little prayer, a little fasting and he will pop out for your story, right? And then you now find out that okay, he's not a vending machine. Yeah. Right. And you have not lost hope. Some people lose hope when you tell them fast for 5 days they fast. You tell them fast for 21 days they fast. Tell them fast for 70 days they fast. Tell them fast for 150 days they fast. Tell them fast for the whole year they fast. And still that baby doesn't come for 25 years and they give up. They're like this thing doesn't work. Once people start to say this thing doesn't work. You know that their faith was wrong to start with. It is not a thing that works. It's not a method. It's not a formula. He's not a strategy. Not a genie. No, he's not a strategy. He can't put coins in. No, he's not a vending machine. He's not a one hand bandit. He's God. He's sovereign and he has a will and he loves you. Yeah. Right. And if your faith is anchored on anything else, if your faith is anchored on how fervently you can pray or how much you give, yes, if you give in faith, if you pray in faith, but if that is the anchor of your faith, not in the sovereignty, in the love of a sovereign God, yeah, you are looking for trouble. I have a question to now kind of wrap us up. What do you think that Nigeria has gotten right in terms of faith? Faith. H What do you think that America has gotten right in terms of faith? Faith. Got him right. Yeah. Can you elaborate? It would be a mistake to assume that everybody in America, everybody in Nigeria doesn't have faith. Yeah. Right. In in in we have faith. Yeah. Right. The problem right is that we start to move our eyes from Christ to other things. So we start well we start with Christ. Yeah. But we don't abide in Christ. Yeah. Right. So we start off giving our lives to Jesus understanding that he's the author and the finisher of our faith. That on the cross the work is complete. Mhm. We start like that. Then we deviate to I'm the one that I'm going to sustain this. How does that happen? Quick question. How does that happen? So, like I'm not not bashing anyone. I'm not bashing anyone at all. In fact, you can use myself as the the goat. This is how Let me know if this is flawed. If Esther or you called me, call me Akbar. Mhm. I know my name is Sund. Mhm. Yeah. Again, I know I'm flawed. I'm a human. I know my if I really knew my name was Sunund. You called me Akbar or called me a different name. I would not respond even if I responded. I'm to tell my my response is to tell you that guys my name is not but my name is Mhm. So I this is why I'm struggling. How do you how did you know that your name is How did you know that your name was Let me tell you how you knew your name was today. Your parents your parents called you today. Mhm. Right. Yes. Every single day. Yes. Your siblings called you today. Yes. Every single day. It's my birth certificate. Yes. Yes. It's your birth certificate. But before you ever saw or could read your birth script, the people around you had told you you were today. Your identity was revealed to you by the people who taught you. Right. Right. They taught you who you are. Yeah. The people who teach us, right? This is what they have taught us. Right. So you get to a point where you can read the Bible and you can understand it. But you don't start off like that. Mhm. Right. And by the time you get to the point where you are reading it and understanding it, many people have already defined it for you. Yeah. So you look at it through the lens of your teachers, right? So if you if you if you if you grow up in a church, if you were if you got saved in a church that viewed the Bible from a very legalistic perspective, you will read the Bible from a legalistic perspective. Yeah. But I see the futility of it. I look at my life, I see how I'm a hypocrite. I see I'm like I see the futility of it. But but really but all the people all the people around you. Mhm. All the way around you are validating it and telling you that that futility that you are seeing is because your glasses is not clean. Go and clean your glasses. And then you get to a point you get to a point where God brings you to a point, right? If your faith was sincere in the first place, right, where he will shake everything in your life. Mhm. And the only thing that will remain is your faith in him. Yep. Right. But he will shake it. If that shaking doesn't break you, that shaking will open your eyes. Paul was killing support for many years, right? And the Bible says that how long will you kick against the goats? You know what that means? That means that they had been trying to reach that guy and had been resisting it for a while, right? But it got to a point where they broke him down, right? Every sincere Christian, every sincere follower of God will get to that point. Yeah. Either you are you grew up in a religious environment or you grew up in an uber um what do you call it hyper grace environment right just vibes yes you will get to a point if you if you sincerely not that you are looking for money or you're looking for babes right if you sincerely had an encounter with God he's going to bring you to that Damascus moment right and when that Damascus moment happens right you will see the futility of religion and you will see the futility of lensiousness Right? And you will see God, right? Even if you don't even if you start off looking for like babes and or whatever money, right? And then you realize I'm being real like I'm I want to be very personal and you realize men there's no real satisfaction here. Yes. Right. Likeamentally, you know what happens? Some people realize that and guess what they do? They double down which is insane. Double down in suffering though. Like it's real suffering because everybody around you is telling you the reason why it's not working for you cuz you're not doing enough. Yeah, but I see I see their suffering. I see our madnesses. I see their hypocrisy. I see that I see what they doing in behind closing. But you're also seeing you're also seeing some of the things that you want. Yeah. So, somebody is saying to you, why are you suffer? What is your suffering that you're suffering? You don't have a job. You don't have a good job. Me, I have a good job. Do you know how I got it? I fasted for 256 days. Yeah. No food. So you you you fasted for 100 days. You're here making noise. What have you done? My friend, come go sit down. You're not serious. You're not ready. But when I have a good job, shout out to my employers. And I'm getting paid well. Oh, shout out to your provider. My my provider, Jesus Christ. Well, of always. But do you see this American Christian is shouting out to his employer? Because you didn't even say I have a good job by the grace of God. Can you see the difference? Very successful person. My point is like I have a good job and in that good job I see as much as I was chasing it to your I see that it's not giving me any lasting peace or satisfaction. You are you are they can't tell what the problem is. Can't tell what the problem is. Your problem is that you are you are not hungry. You have eaten. No because some of us are looking for a job. How far? So so so you see the you see the problem. You see the problem. You see that's the thing right when you get to the west food is not hard. So you have room to be thinking about peace and satisfaction and hypocrisy when you are hungry and I'm not I'm agreeing with you fundamentally but I'm saying that it is a mistake for you right to not understand the forces that drive everybody and the forces that have given you the room right see if you are hungry and people are telling you that the way to get food is to do five somersaults you will do five summer salts I I don't I don't I don't disagree. I know. I don't disagree. What I'm trying to say is coming from someone that that grew up in the in the trenches, right? Um and I'm just I'm being real. No, he grew up I grew up in trenches and it was it was if I'm saying obviously the ways suffering manifest themselves fine. I'm not I'm not denouncing or reducing the fact that like if you don't get food to put for mouth, you go hard, right? But what I'm what I'm saying though is like where the suffering that I regardless of whether it was in Nigeria or here in regards to whether my taste are more refined for me I'm not judging anybody else fundamentally there was a certain in lack of peace and I'm telling you that the reason why you had space to contemplate the lack of peace even when I was when I didn't when I was suffering yes you weren't suffering let me tell you you haven't suffered pastor no forget Not even wait now let me tell you eh you are a lastb born your mother your siblings everybody has always eh yeah my friend will you wipe that that you know that's that's you don't know my story you know my story they know my story from other studios. I also to my friend. No, but I get what you're saying. I'm not diminishing at all. The takeaway if anybody if you bother to watch to the end of this episode, the takeaway is this, right? It is not about the church in America. The church in Nigeria, they are flawed. Deeply flawed. The church in Nigeria is flawed. The church in America is flawed. Right? Pointing fingers is a waste of time. The issue is what do you believe? Right? If you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, if you believe that God is your provider, if you believe that God is the strength of your life, if you believe that he's the glory in the midst of your life, right? If you believe that when Jesus Christ said it is finished, it really is finished. Wherever it is you are, your faith will be like salt. It will be like light. But if you believe that you are saved by works, not by grace. And when you say saved, I mean sotarion, comprehensive and total salvation and deliverance. Again, it will be visible in your works. Yeah. Amen. That's it guys. Thank you guys for watching. Thank you guys so much for watching. Um share, like, comment. We want to hear what you have to say about subscribe. Follow us like and not the stalky kind. Not literally. Follow us online. People stalking, bro. PF. It's me now. Oh god. Here we go. Listen, we want to hear what you guys have to say about, you know, living abroad, traveling, finding community, finding faith, the churches that you've been to, the challenges you've had. Yeah. The challenges had please be civil. I mean, they unfiltered. I'm filter. You can be you can be you can be unfiltered too for sure. But but to PF's point, like we also have feelings. So please feelings. I don't have feelings. I don't have any feeling at all. We will see you guys next time. I appreciate you. Peace. Joshua Riley will be visiting with you. Joshua unfiltered. [Music]