(0:00)The Brutal Truth About Money Fights
Don't be me bond picking. You understand what I'm saying? This is my daughter. This these are my kids, right? Yeah. And the work that she's doing, she's working night shift so that we can have the money that that will pay our bills. How do I say e I'm a man and you are watching the woman in front of you struggle and in night you want to you want to organize or organize her? See his head like coconut. My friend, put your hand in your pocket. Unfiltered.
(0:30)Meet the Guests: Dami & Lia
So, welcome to another episode of PF Unfiltered. My name is Femayo. I'm the PF in PF unfiltered. I'm the PFPF unfiltered. And we've got two really special guests uh here with us this evening. Good friends of mine. Love them dearly. Um and I'll just um let them introduce themselves. You go first. Okay. Hi everyone. I'm Damia Kibala. Uh I'm an associate pastor here at New Covenant House. I had the privilege of serving under PF for what 17 18 years. Yeah. I've known Dami for a minute now. When I first met him, he was a little boy. He used to like to you used to wear these short sneakers. Wild grown man. Yeah. And so um yeah, that's it. Damian, what do your friends call you? Uh Makba. Wow. They call me Damu. Nobody calls you Damu from Okay. That's it. Yeah. Um elder statesman. Indeed. Our father in the Lord. I think that's you. Okay. And can we actually introduce ourselves please? Uh my name is Lia. I am married to the lovely Damian Akibala. Um, I serve as the head of the finance ministry here at New Covenant House, aka CFO. Sure. Well, I I don't understand that. Sure. Are you Are you saying that we are not at the level to have a chief financial officer or are you say what are you saying? I would I would never. You better never. I would never. You better never. Okay. Anyway, we've got a great show for you guys tonight. Um, there's loads for us to talk about and we're really looking forward to to the uh to the conversation. But first of all, and by the way, I don't like doing this host thing. I'm really I really suck at it. I wish Esther was here. Um, and Tundi Oh, by the way, Tundi just had a baby. Yeah. Oh, congrats. That's awesome. Not that he did anything. It was his wife that did it all. But anyway, nevertheless, we celebrate. Yes, we're happy for them. So, back to Tell us about you, Lad. What's your background? tell us a little bit about your story. Uh I
(2:49)Why You Are Always Broke
Oh, let's see. Where do we start? Okay. So, I I have a finance background obviously. Um and I How far back do you want me to go? All the way back. Oh my god. Okay. Obviously, born in Nigeria. Um middle kid of three kids. Grew up in a family that is very close. Um, my dad passed away when I was 11, about to be 12, I think. And I I say that because it's going to be important to sort of my money story. Um, and then, uh, went to college, studied finance for my undergrad, accounting for my masters. I've been in the financial services space for about 20 years. I love all things money, obviously, especially spending it. No. Ah, no. Accounting it. I see. Okay. Accounting it, checking it, looking at it. That's strange for me because money for me is a tool. I want to spend it. I don't understand. Why am I counting money? People hire people to count money. I spend it. They count it. Counting. Huh? Do you like to be broke? I don't have to be broke to to spend money. Ah, okay. Well, if you spend money and you don't budget it, what happens to it? You spend more money. Ah, okay. Clearly, there are things, as you can see, there are things for us to talk about this this morning. Um, sorry, this uh this evening. So, so Demi, what about you? What's your background? Well, I am third kid, house full of boys. Uh, my parents were upper middle class in Lagos, Nigeria. Um, and so how my parents dealt with money now that I look back was very interesting. I'm not sure if you want to go to into it now or we can talk about it later. Yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about So, would you consider yourself a NEPO baby? I I I I I was supposed to be a Nepo baby but it didn't turn out that way. I I initially started out as a Nepo
(4:43)The 'Nepo Baby' Mindset
baby. Okay. Then what happened? You have a mindset of a Nepo baby? And I do have a mindset of Nepo baby. So what what happened? How did you go from Nepo baby to well the trenches? I'm I'm just asking. Um, I just it it boils down to um not planning for the future. And um I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but I I think people just didn't plan, right? So, Okay. Okay. Okay. That's fair. What What would you say was the one defining event that affected your attitude towards money, if you don't mind me asking? Um definitely the loss of my dad. So I
(5:26)How Tragedy Shapes Your Wallet
grew up in upper middle class as well. Um my dad was an executive at an insurance company when I was growing up. And so our lifestyle when um my dad was alive was in totally different with our lifestyle after my dad passed. My mom really really tried hard to maintain that lifestyle. But she really struggled with it because it's just she couldn't earn as much as he was earning. And I think that really really stuck with me. So growing up I was like and a I never want to rely on a man for money. B, I never say say again. I never want to rely on a man for money. Why? Why? Well, again, again, my mom and my mom did a fantastic job, but I know it was it was incredibly hard for her because up until my dad passed, he was, you know, the breadwinner of the family. Um, and so watching her try to maintain that, try to give us the best she could after my dad passed, I was just like, I don't want to experience that. I don't want to experience what it's like to not have money. Dami likes to tease that when we met in college, I was the only college kid he knew that had money in like savings account. Now you're stealing my story. Oh, my bad. Sorry. But I say that because again, I was from the age of 12 or 13, it was like I'm not going to be broke. So that that was like it it defined and it took 40 maybe 30 years after that before I realized this really defined who I am. Okay. That's that's profound. That's profound. Then what about you? What would you say was the one thing that defined your attitude to to to money? Honestly, I wouldn't I don't think there was one thing. I think it's just been a series of events over my marriage to Lady that has actually no before you met Lai you had an attitude to money. Yes. Like ladies said has Yes. happened around 11 12. So for you what would be an equivalent? I think mine was growing up. So we lived
(7:20)Spending vs. Earning Mentality
in an estate where my cousins, so my grandma had five or six children and we all lived in the same estate next door, couple of doors down and we were all doing really well, you know. Um, I do remember when my cousins would go to London for the summertime and come back and then I wasn't going to London, right? In the summertime, um, and not that we were doing poor, we were doing not bad ourselves, but it was just different kind of of of rich. You grew up you grew up around a lot of but I grew up with with s with cousins and family members that were doing pretty well, right? And so what I saw was how money was spent. I never saw how money was earned. And so when you see how money is spent, you naturally gravitate towards spending it, but you you don't know the amount of work that has been put into. You know what you say is so interesting cuz my experience mirrors yours. We've talked about this a lot. I grew up um in similar circumstances, right? But I I was surrounded by people in government who had authority, power, and and money. Yeah. Right. My father was in the thick of all of that. I'm talking about um in the 70s, right? But I didn't feel like we were I was getting as much personally in terms of everybody in the block had a brand new bicycle. Right. My mother would say fingers are not equal. No. Right. So they were constantly doing things that we were not allowed to do. But the impact it had on me was to make me feel a lot less than them because of the way of because of their consumption. The consumption of money was conspicuous. Yes. But my parents for whatever reason, I don't know if they had it or didn't have it, but they would not spend it on their kids in the way I had the best education that my country could offer. But in terms of, you know, I remember one time when all the kids uh uh were
(9:30)Why Your Parents Denied You Denim
wearing jeans, denim, right? And my parents, my mother was like, denim is for refra, right? I would not would literally refuse to buy us denim. Yeah. You know those things had a negative impact on my attitude towards money. Yes. Right. I didn't see it the way L saw it as something to be preserved. Right. As something to provide security. It was a status symbol. Yes. Right. It was to provide status. It was to provide um acceptance. Yes. You know what I mean? So, so it's really interesting when you guys met, how did you reconcile those two? What what impact? Okay. Okay. So to your background to money is clearly different. Yes. It sounds like so my wife right you guys know my wife AK AK grew up um AK was born in 1973. The Nigerian civil war ended in 1970 6970. Yeah. Her parents were in the in the in the in in the east. Right. So they experienced all the challenges of living on the eastern side of the of the war. Yeah. I'm not going to be broke. We must have a roof over our heads. D. So, how did you guys how did you guys get along? That must have been an interesting Very
(10:55)The College Overdraft Reality
interesting. So, when we met, I was a junior in in college. We were both juniors in college. And I recall that I had a very like was one of the was one of the only college students that I knew that had a savings account. Me on the other hand, I had regular overdrafts with Washington Mutual. Washington Mutual, they knew me that any time I enter, I come and pay your fee for. So I was constantly in the re negative and when my paycheck hit, you first of all paid the overdraft. So you had a job. I had a job. I was working. I was constantly. What were you doing? I was in telemarketing. Oh, you're one of those guys to call us. Guys to call. Yes. How did that could not have been good for your ego? I was making money. That's all I dropping the phone on you. I got over it when I saw the paycheck. So meeting Laura L and seeing how she was spending money and how she had a savings account confused me. Are you not the college student? You know why? Why am I Why am I broke and why you Why do you have money? Yeah. So, that was interesting. Yeah. Yeah. No, actually, I have to give Demi credit. I think very early on once
(12:05)Surrendering Control: The Credit Score Battle
we got serious, Demi really relinquished his finances to me. He was like, "My credit is rubbish." I don't really much to relinquish. I mean, I'm just saying, but he didn't fight me on it. You know what I mean? He was very quick like, "Listen, my credit is like 500. Yours is like seven something." Yeah. Uh my account is always overdrawn. Uh yours isn't. So we started by the time we were like two or this is after we had graduated college and he had moved from Houston to Dallas. Very quickly he was like listen you can have at it. You know I think I think the defining moment of it was when we were planning our wedding. Yeah. I think that was the kickoff because that point l said hey we don't h our parents are not wealthy so we have to save for our own wedding everything we want so for one year all of our money went to savings for for and then I I funny enough I had a degree in account I have a degree in accounting so it it tells you that you can know something theoretically but not be able to practice it right in in reality right I had a degree in accounting but I was just terrible with money. How many years did you spend in accounting school learning accounting? Four years. And I was an accountant for seven years after that. So for four years, right, you learned accounting, but your money attitude was developed over a much longer period. Much longer period.
(13:30)Why Your Degree Won't Save Your Budget
Right. And you learned about money at your most at your formative years. Exactly. and money had there's a lot of emotions, a lot of trauma, a lot of the way that your parents raised you, a lot of environmental factors that creates your money habits. So, so I I need you to say that again because a lot of people think that this thing is just you just wake up and you decide this is how you're going to deal with money as opposed to the the truth of what you have just said that there's a lot that forms your attitude towards money. Yes. Right. And changing it is a challenge. How did you relinquish the finances of I know that that would not have be easy knowing you but but you know you know it's funny is I knew that I was bad with money and I knew she was good with money and the one thing I've never and it's just inherent in me is when it comes to money I have no ego because the one thing I know about me is I don't know everything. So once I clued in that okay I don't know everything and it seems like she knows more about money than I do. So I said before we even got married my when we got engaged I just said hey here's my bank account. Are you sure lad didn't threaten you that if you don't if you don't submit this cuz I doesn't play no marriage for
(14:45)Practical Steps to Financial Unity
you. To be honest though what really helped is that we had goals very we had um common goals. So in the beginning it was a oh let's work on my nom so that we can plan for the wedding. That is a common goal right. So we did that after the wedding and I'm an executor by nature. If you is go here come once you say we're going here and I'm going to work towards that goal. So we did that and then after the wedding it was okay we're saving for a house. Right. Right. So let's So by the time we had finished saving for the house we were pregnant with a kid. So by the time Dami looked up 5 years had gone and the entire money management was really my court. There was a time where Dami was like, "You know what? You are too much. You do too much. You're too." This was like 10 15 years ago. But let me tell my story. Okay. So, Dami goes, you know, you you literally um this was maybe 10 years in again because in the beginning, right, it wasn't a conscious effort. I I don't think it was a fully conscious effort to relinquish the control. It was just natural because things were happening. And so 10 years in, he's like, "I cannot do anything. You're always budget, budget, budget. I'll take over the budget." And I gave it to him. And I was like, "You know what? You can have it." And let's see how it goes. How long does it take you? This story. I don't remember this story that she speaks of. You I'm not even sure it's factual in my opinion. Actually, I think I I have Yeah, you've known us long enough to remember. I think two months. Yes. Was it up to two months? I'm not a quitter, so I don't remember. You're saying, I don't I don't really believe it happened. You know, the question that this raises for me is this, right? Both of you are of African descent. Yes. And uh the African cultures have very rigid um roles and um opinions about how money should be managed in a in a family. Usually with the husband taking the lead, right? In fact, a lot of women will tell you that um they marry a man because he can provide. Right? That is uh 40% of the reasons why they will marry a man because he can provide. And once they get married, the expectation is that they take a back seat, right, to his um provision and subsequent because the man feels he's the provider, then he also becomes the manager, right? How how did that play out in your marriage? I don't think we've ever had traditional gender roles to be honest with you in our marriage. And I think a lot of times, and I say this to a lot of young women especially, is like you want to replicate and mimic something you watched growing up, but really when you look at the underlying result of what you watched growing up, those marriages a lot of times were not successful. Yeah. Right. They were long. There was a lot of uh You said what? They were long. They were long, but not necessarily successful. So you're saying that the fact that a marriage was 50 years does not make it successful. No. And what makes a marriage successful? Are you friends? Do you have partnership? you know, do you feel like you are a unit? I think there was a lot of imbalance in those marriages um where the men were like, "Okay, I'm providing and I'm managing, so I get to decide everything. I get to do whatever I want and you just stay home." Meanwhile, we we are 21st century women. We want equal rights. We want to be able to have a partner, but then we also want the guy to provide everything and manage everything. I think we're being unrealistic. One of the things I hear a lot as a pastor from young ladies is that well my father did this, my father did that. You father's marriage though. Exactly. Or your mother's married. Exactly. And then a lot of the mothers they turn to, they get to a certain age and they leave their husbands and they are doing omugo from daughter to daughter, from house to house because they can't bear to be with the man, right? And you point to a marriage that you clearly do not want, right? But when it suits you, you you point to that marriage as an example, right? Yeah. And the problems that come with that format, we pretend like those problems don't exist. Yeah. We we want to eat our cake and have it too, right? And say, I want the there's no shortcut in life, right? Like there is no shortcut. You pay somehow. You pay somehow, right? So, I think we have for us, we've we've built our marriage on what works for us. And that's what I say to couples a lot of times is don't you feel any pressure though from the sisterhood? Well, I think the question is you does Dami feel pressure from the brother? Do you feel Do you feel pressure from the sisterhood? No. None. Nobody's like, "Ah, you're the one doing this, you're the one doing that." What's Dami doing? And I don't do a Dami does a lot of things. No, I'm not even talking about cuz you know it's just Yeah. If you mention that you manage the money, right? Yeah. There's no ah what's your husband doing? Yeah. No, but again, I don't surround myself with people who ask such Thank you. Thank you. I really don't. My social circle is very much people of like minds, right? So, um I'm surrounded by marriages that look like my marriage. I'm surrounded by people who think likely the same way I think. So, I I don't get that question. No. I love that. So, basically, people you surround yourself with will impact the way you perceive your worldview. 100%. Awesome. Dam, how do you navigate that? cuz I know that, you know, as a proud Niger guy, right? I don't know that I I honestly I I always looked at it this way that we were one unit I wasn't ever separate from her and she wasn't ever separate from me and wherever the holes were or the gaps were, whoever had who was whoever was well equipped to fill that hole or plug that hole was going to execute. This is why we have them teaching our premarital counseling class. Just FYI, you know, this is wisdom, right? And I know some of you on social media are going to lose your minds because of what they are saying. But let me encourage you to just open your mind and think for 20 seconds and not allow your repress anyway not allow your I was about to get spicy for a minute and not allow you know uh uh emotions cloud your reasoning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that that's that's interesting. That's how I always looked at it. Um there have there are some roles in my family that are traditional gender female roles that I do. Give me an example of one. Um the kids, he's a better parent. I won't say I'm a better, but I'm more hands-on with our kids. We have a 16-year-old now and a 13year-old. But honestly, when we were in the thick of things, the way that we set up our life, when we both got homes, I picked up the kids from school. Well, they worked further. Wait, wait, wait. What? What? What? You picked up the kids from school? I picked up the kids from school. I would leave work. I Are you a man? I would leave pick up the kids from school. Will leave work a little bit late and then she'll go home and then she'll cook, right? Regular. And so I will get the You're horrible. You You can't cook this. No, I can. He can. No, no, no. Don't ask me. Dami does a lot of things about cooking. Cooking is not one of them. And I will shower for the kids. I'll get them ready. I'll read to them and everything. And then when it was time for dinner, we eat. So, a lot of our traditional roles, we never really we just, okay, who was best equipped for it, right? Interesting story. We both went to work today. He went to work. I went to work. We We drove separately. I mean, immediately thinking, "Oh, we're both heading this way. What are the kids going to eat for dinner?" And then I called Dami and I'm like, "Are you on your way?" He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Uh, I was going to think maybe we should." He's like, "Well, I already sorted that out." He had already called our son, sorted out dinner. What are they going to eat? He's a better parent. By the time I'm thinking of it, that means he's already done it. And I think that that's sometimes what's missing is it's a partnership. It doesn't have it's a team. It's like you we're so focused on money. I need him to give me money. Is he a good man? Is he kind? Is he fearing? Is he God? Is he God-fearing? Is he kind to people? Is he an amazing dad? Is he a good partner? Like, we discard all of these other qualities over how much is in his bank account or how much you think he's earning. And the reality is that we earn money at different levels throughout our lives. And pegging someone for how much they're making in one season, I think, is so unhealthy. And I think it's stopping people from literally meeting the love of their lives. One of the challen one of the things that I hear a lot and I don't mean to sound biased against um any particular gender but one of the things that I hear a lot is the idea that a man must earn more right not in my marriage really I'll be very transparent okay but there's been seasons right there were seasons most of the seasons my wife earned more there were some seasons where I earned more but those seasons were to be very frank But not not a lot. Yeah. My wife is just hiring her. But the key to it is this. When it was time for her to go to those dinners at night, when it was time for her to travel to meet meet the executives, when it was time for her to do all those things that you helped you to move up the ladder, I was the one holding out the fo, right? I was the one with the kids. I was the one with the But I didn't look at it as she's bringing in her money. I looked at it as she's bringing in our money. Because in Texas is a common law state. If you were to divorce, it's 50/50. So whether I'm the one physically earning the money or and or I'm indirectly earning the money is still coming into the same bank account, right? So I always looked at it that way. And to be honest with you, my wife is like an epic. She's a nerd. She she she's great with numbers. So I realize she is better equipped at earning money than I am. That that's that's a profound um statement that you make and it speaks to some degree to my challenges as well. Right. My wife is a pharmacist. I've always been a pastor and I've been a pastor that is planting churches. Right. Um and immigrant churches are not the most the richest churches irrespective of the size Yeah. of the churches particularly if you're not one of those pastors who's constantly got his hands um in people's pockets. Right. Yeah. So, we've always and I have always had to develop a system that worked for us, right? And one of the challenges that I had, and I don't know if you had this challenge, was the idea that my wife would look down on me, right? Or the idea that my wife's people would look down on me or I remember one time I I I told I I gave a testimony in church about how my wife bought me a car. Yeah. You know, and somebody was like, "Why did your wife buy you a car?" you know, you and I wanted to slap him and his backwards his um his ancestors, but I the Holy Spirit took control of your of my hand and my heart, you know, but but you know, people have a perspective, right? And they're very vocal about that perspective, right? How did you navigate that? I just I don't know. I I just I never looked at it as in I guess because so I left Nigeria when I was 18, right? And so my parents came to the US for college. They went back to Nigeria. My parents had in some ways a very traditional wedding and prepare traditional marriage. But I was determined to not fail where they failed. There were some things that I learned from my parents' marriage that are my parents are divorced now, but I realized that I didn't want the same pattern to be repeated in my marriage. So, I had to take active steps to make sure that this doesn't happen again. But I wasn't looking at it as in, oh, my wife did. Do you think, by the way, do you think that us combining our resources early on helped not having to think about who makes more or less 100%. But what's to be fair, what's also easier is that when we came together, we had nothing. Yeah. We were we were we were in college, right? We didn't have much. Yeah. So I I feel for those guys that in their 30s and 40s and they make a lot of money. So the challenge in dating right now is so difficult because the the risk and the stakes are so high for what the amount of money they're going to lose. So making the right choice there's a lot more pressure. But we came in with like we we we were just in love. We were just in love. But what I think I think I think marrying somebody irrespective of age and situation because you love them, right? Honestly, we have come to to denigrate that ideal, right? We we we we minimize the importance of it. Yeah. Right. If you marry somebody who you sincerely genuinely love, somebody you genuinely care about, it is so much easier to do whatever is necessary to keep that person in your life. Absolutely. Right. You will change diapers. Yes. Right. You will work towards the success of that marriage. Yes. But when you marry somebody right from that perspective of convenience or transactional or transactional right I'm at that age it's time to marry who would suit the position better with the hope that you will fall in love with them afterwards right it's it's harder people do it right but it's really really hard because there a lot of things that will make it difficult to fall in love with them that happen in marriage right the idea that I'm going to change diapers. Right. Coming from where I come from would have been problematic if not that I loved this girl. Yes. Right. I can see her struggling with this children. Right. How do I turn my back on her? Absolutely. Right. And say I'm a man. I don't change diapers. No be me born. You know what I'm saying? This is my daughter. This these are my kids, right? And the work that she's doing Yeah. Yeah. She's working night shifts. Yeah. so that we can have the money that that will pay our bills. How do I say e I'm a man. Can you imagine? And you are watching the woman in front of you struggle and then at night you want to you want to organize or organize her see his head like coconut my friend put your hand in your pocket. It's like you're biggest up. Yes, you are your own biggest up. Right. And and those are the things that in in counseling, right? I I I I say to folks sometimes, why do you want to marry this person? M right. Do you love them? Are they a good person? Right. The money aspect of it is one of those and you know how you guys you know how money is. Yes. Right. L you are in right in the thick of it in the industry and you know that people wake up with millions and go to bed with zero. Absolutely. All the time you catch somebody it's a snapshot. Yes. You know what matters is who is this person? How do you feel about this person? But some people they can't love you if you don't have money. So there you go. It's tough man because P I think and one of the things you told me was the most important decision you make is accepting Jesus to be your life your Lord and Savior. The second most important thing is who you get married to. And if you're going to make that decision a transactional decision you've missed you've missed you've missed you missed it. It's a big problem. I I I I I think how a marriage works is not as important as is it working. Right. Is it working? Are you happy? Yes. Right. Me and you, we love each other. Everybody's happy. But some people are unhappy. Yes. Because right of this mindset Yeah. of how things should be. Yeah. Meanwhile, we have to approach things from what works for us. not what worked for our parents. And nine times out of 10, our parents weren't telling us the truth about what was going on in their marriages. Fact, they weren't telling they weren't telling us the truth. One more thing, PF, I hate I'm probably going to get dragged on social media for this. It's all right. I hate the phrase happy wife, happy life. I I I find it extremely disgusting. I I I I it annoys me because it it it rims me up. It it means that it is only the wife's happiness that is important in the marriage. Who are the people who say that? Who are the people who where did that come from? Happy wife, happy life. Because as far as I know, Lola is working every day to make sure that everything she does impacts me in a positive way. Yeah. And everything that I'm doing impacts her in a So we are both working together for happy spouse, happy life. Yes. Happy house. Happy house. I don't even care if it rhymes. Happy spouse. Yes. The the the the challenge The challenge is this, right? We need to start to accept that the roles that we have agreed on as gender roles are not necessarily the roles that work in the reality of the day that we live in. Some things are gender based. Absolutely. Men are not going to carry children in their in their bellies. We don't have wombs. Sure. Right. But in spite of that, man, AK will run rings around me when it comes to math. M I don't remember Jack. Yes, my wife. She'll be telling me about compound interest interest and I'm like wait what? I have no idea. I just spend it. Yeah, that's me, you know. Yeah, practically what is the You're like me. You like nice things. You like really nice things. We have We have a relationship over nice things. We like nice things. Yes, we like nice. How how does that work with L? Li likes nice things, but Li has the um let me tell you guys the story. So Li and I have a relationship this story. No, no, it's a good it's a good story. L we have we have a relationship is like the she she runs our church finances and when we started the church at the beginning of the year L would say to me say PF what is the goal for this year? I'm like what's the goal? see what is the financial goal for this year and I would say to L you know what this year I think we need to do this we need to do that and I didn't know that time I was making mistakes by doing that because you know when she says she only hears go she doesn't hear come so anytime I come to I say oh I need to do like nah man we're not doing it you said you said it's not in the go same thing in our household though just so oh I know but but as a church as a church we we have a building yes right That cost us at the time. Yeah. About $4.7 million. Yes. Right. And the amount of money we collected for the building fund was less than $200,000. I remember all of the money for that building came from the way Lai and her team managed the money, right? It wasn't we weren't taking extra offerings. We didn't bring in guest speakers to take offerings. It was whatever the people gave in their tithe and in their offering, right? the other day and the team. I think they were saving 60 cents on the dollar at the time, right? And it was hard because we like nice things. Yes. And we have to do excellence for the kingdom of God. But thank God for Lord, we we appreciate her and that. But how does that work when Dami wants something nice and it's not in the budget? I replicate whatever I do with you with him. Oh god. No. No. Actually, we we have a really I feel like we have a good system. Yeah. It's it's good. Is it a good system? You think it's a good system? I think it's I think that tonight. So we we we're the good thing is we're both WT earners. We both have jobs, right? That are not we're not entrepreneurs. We both work regular jobs. So but at the we have a family meeting at the every December. We know what we're going to earn. Okay. That's what that means gentle. I know that that mean that means very different is that December, you know, we're like okay, we sit down, we do the budget. In the beginning, we used to argue a lot back and forth. Dragon fight because that mean will come with okay I'm a I'm a practical person I'm very practical I know you praise 1 plus one equals to whatever will always equals to that's that's not quite accurate 1 plus one you can if you holy spirit can bring five so enter family meeting and dam will be saying and I'm exaggerating but it would be good to buy a boat this year it would be good to do like so I'm a dreamer by nature I dream a a lot daddy it will just be bringing different things into and I'm looking at him like uncle we make this much where where so I said you know what I tried this with one year when we're doing church uh budget and I was like I'm just going to replicate that so now we have family meeting we sit down and we do a budget and we say this is the income these are our expenses we have to pay mortgage we have to feed our children we have to do this We I lay out all the things we agree on, right? And I'm like, "Okay, this is what's left." That was not nice when you did that. I I remember I remember this. Why you don't like math? I I don't I really don't. They would say, "Well, you want to bring this guest speaker? No problem. You want to um change the the AV system? No problem. But here's the money. You decide. It's it annoys me the last choice. Bloody man. You know, so it it it it really makes it easy to not have an argument because we the things we agree on takes about 70% of the budget, right? And Dami is always he comes he's already started to sing now. We need bamba money. We need bamb money. Figure it out. Like this if Dami is not spending money, he'll be coming over say I'm depressed. I'm sad. But like this is what life is for. Window shopping makes me happy. It brings me joy. And then I have a list in my head of if if you wake me up at 2:00 a.m. today. I said, "Damine, what do you want?" I can start listing them. I'll reach 25 before I say, "I run out of ideas." I know the list in my head. So, I'm constantly shopping. So, here's what I've done to for the practical for people out there is if I have 10 things that I want from the money left, I say, "Okay, well, based on what's left, we can only do two things." So, the other eight, I carry it over to next. close it over. But I wait. So what I've learned to do is I played the long game. I wait. And so that is my that's my superpower is I am bad with money, but if I want something, if I want a nice watch, if I want out me, I'll wait. So I'll wear And I've learned to stop underestimating his dreams because most of the things that said he wanted 5 years ago, he has. I get that. And the other thing I will say is that the fact that um the fact that we agree on we dream together um and we we agree on most things really helps, right? We agree on what we want our retirement to look like. We agree on the fact that we want to give our kids the gift of, you know, um no debt for college. So we've we've sat down and I think it's good. I always tell couples dream together. Make a list of all your things. What do you want? What do you like? Okay, travel is important to you. What's important to you? Put all of it on paper. Once you have your joint dreams, it's easy to Money is just, again, to be fair, money is a tool. Money is a tool to accomplish the things you guys have decided together. If you have the dreams together, it it's so much easier. There's something you you're saying that you don't you may not realize the the weight of together, right? A lot of marriages struggle because there's no togetherness. We don't have mutual dreams. We don't have mutual agendas, right? We don't have a mutual life. We're together. We're married, but our eyes are heading in different directions. So rather than unity, you have thision, right? Two people with different things they're trying to achieve. And then the money rather than being a tool to bring us together and take us to our goal then becomes the wedge that drives us apart. And that's this is why Demi is always yelling that it's super important for couples to have their money together. It forces you to work as a unit, right? Because everybody cares about their money. Yeah. But but but will I uh but that if I put my money with somebody, I give up control? Yes. Right. Because now that that person has access to that money, right? They have access to impact my dreams, they have access to impact or or truncate my agenda, right? So for many of us, right, that whole thing of money together is a problem not because of numbers but control, right, and fear. And my wife always says, "How do you live with somebody? You are exchanging bodily fluids with them." Right? But you cannot do finances with them. It makes no sense. You made a human with them in some cases. Yes. Right. So that that tells you that the problem sometimes, right, money is a symptom of a bigger problem. Yes. Right. The two have not become one. Yes. We have not become one. We are one sexually. We're one in terms of shelter, but we're not one in terms of vision. Yes. Right. And as long as we're not one in terms of vision, we're going to have problems particularly when it comes to money. There's a question I want to ask cuz you mentioned you want to leave your kids without debt. How do you guys manage cuz you went to college in America so I'm sure somebody out of the old man had passed away, right? One of you had some debt coming into the marriage. Yes. How did you guys navigate that? So again, you know me, I hear go I don't hear come. It helps. But we I luckily didn't really have debt from college between scholarships. And you're also very smart. I'm smartish. Very smart. Smart enough to get a scholarship. But I'm not saying that means not smart. But you're very smart. I did say that means not smart. Yeah. I'm not even That's it. Doesn't bother me. Do you get scholarships? Cuz me I didn't get one scholarship in my life. I got a scholarship. I would lie. You're better than me. My wife had the best. She kept getting scholar. Let's not even talk about that. As you can see, I'm traumatized by my brilliant wives. But between all of the scholarship, FAFSA, everything, I didn't have to really. But Dami actually didn't have debt in his undergrad. We had debt for his masters. Um, and so that was one of the things we needed to tackle very early on in our marriage. And we were like, I think this was very early in our marriage. We just, our kids were very young. We may have only had no uh we had a Dave Ramsey class we took. Yeah. I don't remember that. The very first one. Yeah. and they talked about the debt snowball. And we looked at each other. We we had a little bit of credit card debt from getting married, having kids, job losses when like I was pregnant and I didn't have I didn't get paid during our my maternity leave. Between that and dam like you know what we're going to focus one year on paying off our debt and we really actually did that. We hunkered down. Dami was very miserable that year. That was that was hard. He was frustrated. There was no vacation. There was no outlet. I was I was But we sat disciplined because debt is the one thing that actually is an anchor for a lot of people. It holds people back. You can't even start dreaming about do I want to do you know make college debtree for my kids when you have debt. So we really really hunkered. I think it took us like 18 months. Um is college debt was like maybe 30 maybe everything maybe sh like 40 and weren't even making this was like back in how old was Noah? Maybe 2010 2011. Yeah. Right. We weren't making a lot of money. It was very but we we just really said and I think the key is one of the greatest gifts my mother ever gave me is my not um envying other people not looking what other people are doing right be content so just not looking at other people saying this is what I want we want to do and focusing on the debt and we did that and I'm it was probably one of the proudest thing we've ever done because we weren't making a lot of money and we we really really focused and tackled it and I always tell people if you have debt You got to mind your business and really be methodical and you know tackle it. So that's the producer is sign that sign that sign is is a is you are sign for the people. Don't worry. And to be fair you know back in 2011 social media was not what it was today. I think social media has compounded challenges for a lot of pressure for people. Uh people are graduating college getting their first jobs thinking they must sky Louis Vuitton and MS and all the things for there's a time for everything and you know what you want your retirement to look like because you see my mother always says it is not until you are old that you know who is truly rich because you see when you're young everybody can go and get an extra job get a third job everybody's showing off that they are rich but when you're old and you cannot go and get that extra job then you really know who's really wealthy and who isn't. And and a lot of people, we don't think about aging, right? It's not when you're young, aging is is is far. Yes. You know, I I closed my eyes and I'm 56. Can you imagine? I just woke up one day and I'm I'm 56. I'm going to be remember when you were 40 when Are you kidding me? Yeah. I'm going to be 57 next year. Slim, tall, handsome. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it's okay. It's okay. I mean, it's fine. It is what it is. I mean, we're getting old. It is what it is. In 3 years I'll be 60. You know how I used to look at 60 year olds. Don't worry. It's coming for you. That's one thing that you cannot insult me about age. You cannot you cannot make me feel bad. That's so true. We met you when you like 40. I was 40. I was literally 40. A card a membership me. No, not yet. Skrespectful. Yeah. It's ridiculous. But it is what it is, you know. And unfortunately, right, you don't realize that aging is a thing until you start aging. Yes. And by then, if you're not careful, it's too late to do anything about it. How do you guys on a practical how do you manage your finances on a day-to-day basis? I know Li, you know, um has said she's kind of like the manager. Do you have joint accounts? Um do you have separate accounts? How do you guys do it? So we we we have a joint account and then we have his and hers account. So it's like ours then yours and mine. And what we do is all of our money comes into our joint account. All of our bills, everything. Oh. So it's not that the money goes into separate accounts. No. And then you put your money everything comes into one account. Deposit from your from your employer or your business. Yes. And the only thing that's going into our separate account is what we call our fund money. Okay. Right. Just so that you know so we give we give each other a stipend you know. um every every paycheck. So money comes in and then we have an allocated stipen and that amount has changed over the years for whatever it is and then we define what that is for. Like that mean knows that my stipen is for my upkeep. If you want all of this whatever it is that you want, it must come from the joints. You understand? So we've defined that. Well, let's not lie. She was being cheap before and then I told her I said, "Hey, there's a certain way that I like my wife to look. Uh that's not going into your fund money. That's coming out of the joint." You did because I'm cheap. Yeah. Because if you make happy out of her sten money, you get what you get. You get what you get. Yeah. You get what you get. So that's how we've done it. And and it really works for us because again, everything is together. We talk about everything. We talk about we have no problem talking about money. Um we have check-ins where we talk about our goals. It's really fun to dream together. Where do we want to be? you know, by the time we're, you know, that means I do not dream for both of us, you know, older than me. I would say he's an elder statesman. Uh, like what I'm teasing uh what age do we want to retire? What, you know, how we so we we talk all the time about what is our money goal? At the beginning of each year, we're like, okay, how closer are we to that gingers him because, you know, that means a man of leisure in reality. is just condition that's making him I'm I'm a nipple baby by nature. So um so yeah that's that's what we do in a very budget. We do and we stick to that budget as much as possible. Um whatever is in there we even have budgets to help our family members in Nigeria. We have a budget Wait wait wait wait wait back up back up. So you guys actually how do you how how does that work? Helping relatives whose responsibility is that? How does that work? It's both our responsibility. Yeah we talk about it. Okay. So, oh, so and so needed this cuz I know I know your mom and I know your mom, right? Both of you your fathers have gone to be with the Lord, right? So, I know your I know both your moms. So, whose responsibility is whose mom? Both are responsibilities. No, for real. Really? Yes. Wow. Tell me about that. Like if if my if I'm if sometimes if I I'm just, you know, a lot lot of this mom is like my mom. Yeah. So sometimes I'll just, you know, I'll be nice to her. I'll send her something nice and do the same. So we don't look at it as in his versus mine or whatever. What we've also done is that sometimes if it is such an immaterial amount because of the exchange with Nigeria, I don't even bother talking to about it. We have a threshold. If it's anything under $100, I'll just be like, "Ah, I'll send that money." But if it's $500 we're talking about here, we have a conversation and we see, okay, what's the best way we can do it? Is it going to fit into the budget? What's going to what's going to what's going to Something's got to give somewhere. And so we have that conversation. And it doesn't have to be a long conversation. It's just a hey, so and so needs this, guys. It's you know, it's keeping each other in the loop. Yes. Of what's going on so we know what's going on. Um and and that's it. It's it's really that it's interesting because I I know a lot of situations where your mother is your mother, my mother's my mother. I'll take care of my mother, you take care of your mother. I don't want to hear about it. Right. A lot of couples do that, right? And and then that then breeds resentment because one one parent might need more. Yes. At different times than the other parents, right? Absolutely. Um what AK and I do is very similar to what is exactly what you guys do. Whatever her mom needs when she comes and says I need to send money to any like why of course I'm going to send it. When I need to send money to my dad in Abuja, I send I send the money. You know, I I think fundamentally, right, the takeaway that I have from this conversation is the person you marry matters 100%. Right. 100%. And why you marry them? Don't mind them for what they bring to the table. That word annoys me. Mhm. Marry them for if nothing is left. Is this person kind to you old age? Would they take care of you? Would you take care of them? Yeah. Those are the things question both of you. What is it that Dami does that makes it easy for you? Oh boy. To do what you do. And what is it that L does that makes it easy for you to do what you do? Because I know that what you do cuz we talk and and I talk to you. I know that what you do can be stressful sometimes and can be difficult. You want soft lives many times. I do indeed. You know, and it would be nice to wake up and go get that um um what's that car you want again? the um Porsche. Yes, you want, you know, it will be it will be nice. But what is it that Dami does, right, that makes it easy for you to work hard, you know, in some cases and in some seasons maybe even earn more and bring that more without it causing quarrel. Well, okay, I'll say two things. One is Demi is my biggest cheerleader. Dami sees my worth more than I see my worth. The first time I ever went to go ask a boss for a promotion, it was my husband going, "Ma'am, you're doing the work of a AVP, VP, whatever it is. Go in there and tell these people what's up." And I'm like, "Ah, can't do that. That's" He was like, "Go in there. Go in there. Get your money." And I did. And my my boss was like, "Go right. You have been doing the work of whatever." And so Demi has always seen my potential before I see my potential. Always, always, always. So I always think if I admired someone else that was more like me. They because again Demiy's ability to see dream is a visionary is visionary is what's carried our lives where we are in our lives. I is not because or I you guys clock that Dami is the visionary even 100%. So so that that's powerful. No no no no seriously. So seriously right being a leader right is not being the hardest worker right or the most productive in quote right it is being able to set a vision right articulate a vision bring your people up right I love what you said Dian and I and I'm you know I don't I harass you a lot but I really am proud of you no he says this about you he truly leads her family and that you cheer her on you see the potential in her and you spur how to to to maximize it. Awesome. Awesome job, man. Okay. And the second is he's a phenomenal dad. He really is. Dami does most of the I'm I'm not even going to lie. I literally get to go um do whatever. And knowing that that's enough. That's enough. That he's he's your number one cheerleader. He's a great visionary. He's a phenomenal. That That's enough. Yes. Really? Yes. Yes. Wow. Yes. No, because again is it by you birking bags? I don't need birking bags. I need a partner who is walking life. Are you here? Okay. I mean again I feel like the life we've built if we wanted to be reckless we we can go buy the Birkin bags if but that wouldn't have been possible without the partnership. I think that if if couples really work together, you know that that scripture about wherever you know can two work together and you know and that is a scripture. Yeah. Because me by myself if I'd marry someone with my personality we would first of all not accomplish anything. We would still be where we were and we just be sitting at one bedroom and checking our bank account every day. So you need him being a visionary has really been what propelled them honestly. Awesome. Awesome. Then what about you? for me like L you know I preached a sermon about diligence because I talked about how I growing up I saw how money was spent but I never saw how it was earned. What I have seen my wife do her character has taught me what it means to work hard. My wife is relentless when it comes to what to a point where I'm like auntie calm down now relaxing on your birthday. Auntie's birthday was yesterday as she's working take happy birthday you and I'm just like I'm like sister take a day off but what is that stopped me is that in the rain in the wind in the snow just continue to grind continue to work hard so the work ethic that one I'm I'm I'm still learning I'm a working progress I'm not even going to for on the home side my wife gives me peace I would not lie my wife some guys like they're like ah my afraid to go home. Ah, not my wife. My wife I'm looking forward to going home to meet my wife because she gives me peace. There's no stress. She does not stress me at all. So, those are the two, you know, I I I I really have enjoyed this conversation cuz it seems like the two of you have a lot of regard for each other, you know, and I know how marriage is. Marriage gets messy, you know, and there's sometimes a lot of pain in it, you know, but the way you guys have spoken shows that you guys have regard for each other. I know it's sincere. It's not the BS that some people just Am I allowed to say BS? It's unfiltered, man. You got me filtered. Yeah. So, um, rapid fire or maybe not rapid fire. Our time is up. Yeah. Rapid fire. Rapid fire. Oh, boy. Okay. Let me I'll let you answer. No, we will share the burden. Okay. One quick question. One quick question. What money fights makes you laugh now and then we'll wrap up. One fight you guys had over money. I I I think it's really whatever the issues we had in the beginning where Dami wasn't practical. Dami is very actually the funny thing now is Dami has started to behave like me where sometimes I'm spending Dami is like ah uh auntie slow down. So now I laugh because I feel like he's more like me now than his eye has opened up. His eye has opened. the NEO baby scales are falling off his eyes at at my old age. I just I don't want to be struggling. So, and my eyes is on the goal. I I think he's getting old. Yes. And he's realizing that he's run out of time. Yeah. My runway is not what it is. So, I'm just like, yeah, let me just be be calm. Coming down. You guys are you guys are you guys have taught me a lot tonight. And I hope uh the folks uh watching are paying attention to the things you've said and the things you know you haven't said. They can't really see your body language. I can see your body language and I can tell that this is a couple that really believes and practices what they are what they are saying in in in a real way. One thing that I hope everybody has taken away from this is the person you marry matters, right? But not just the person you marry. How you behave matters. If Lola had not behaved or does not behave the way that she behaves, it will make it impossible for Dami to behave the way that he behaves and vice versa. So basically, it's important that you marry the right person, but it's also important that you are the right person for you to have that marriage that everybody desires, right? Um, so yeah, with that, just want to say thank you to Dami and Lady. Wonderful couple, great friends. Um, and L and I are going into our budget meeting for the church in a couple of weeks. Oh, yeah. I have fasting and praying for that meeting. We have to He always comes with a list too. Him and Dami. I always I always come with a list. And uh but I've learned it's been we've been doing this now for 15 years. Yes. But you still come with a list. Yeah. But we don't fight as much. We don't we don't understanding day. Yeah. And we're we're walking it out. We used to fight a lot at those. We don't fight anymore. Uh and God has done good things. Great things. Great things. Thank you guys. Thank you so much for coming on. This was for us. Um so please uh follow us on Instagram, YouTube, PF unfiltered. Follow me fei.io at on Instagram. Bye. All right. Unfiltered. [Music]